by Hopscotch 216 Replies latest watchtower bible
"Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family."
Note the bait and switch here: Ask a question about 'family', then make an unrelated assertion about marriage.
Does study of the Watchtower lead to family breakup?, has a completely different answer.
Reniaa, where are you?
What's the answer?
Cheers
Chris
HOPSCOTCH- The WT society always finds excuses for what they justify in their own conduct; the same conduct they condemn in other religions. Take child abuse as an example. They so self righteously denounced the Catholic church and it's leaders in a tract they delivered to the public - all the while being fully aware of the horrid child abuse being done in their own cult by elders and other higher ups in the witnesses. So- It stands to reason they would justify shunning of families in their own beliefs- but condemn other religions for doing it as well. This is a well defined trait of the WT society. And an ugly one
Just a bit more perspective here: From what religious cults did the followers of Jones and Waco initially come? Mainstream religious groups from which they eventually deviated and formed cults. Why compare JWs to these extreme groups when there is no evidence that this is what is happening in the Watchtower?
I was expressing a worst-case scenario guys, I wasn't suggesting physical danger was likely or imminent. But if the WT continues down the road of reasonableness in the public mag and extremism in the JW-only one, then discourages the friends from reading the public edition, the scene is set for radicalisation. Unlikely I know, but possible.
Mr Flipper, do you think you might be able to use this article in your relationship with your daughters? And anyone else who is being shunned by family?
Could this mag give some leverage?
This is absolutely incredible. They have stated in black and white that choosing to leave the WTS should not cost a person their family. This has been emailed to my father for further explanation.
The only issue I can see here is that the article is on page 29....of the Awake. Who reads the Awake, let alone an article with a picture of an Asian woman discussing changing religions.
I think everyone here should send this article to as many people as possible, making sure they don't miss it.
bttt
Unbelievable.
Wow - Every single person who left for doctrinal issues should show this article to their family. It took balls of steel to put that one in print! Do they not think that folks are going to read this????
"Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family."
Uh, who said anything about the bible breaking up families? It's the Watchtower Bible and Tract Societies bizarre and unscriptural doctrines that lead to family breakup----not the bible. This statement of course is directed at every other religion and non-Witness on the face of the earth---not Jehovah's Witnesses themselves. Why? Because they have "the truth" and therefore the same rules do not apply to them.
Makes me wonder what the hell they've been smoking on the 6th Floor that they actually have the balls to come up with something like this.
Ok so I emailed to my MIL +FIL (active JW's) - here ya go:
The following quote is taken from the article “Is it Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake p29:
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”
Naturally this doesn't apply on the way out - different rules apply to leavers. Some might call this barefaced lying.....your thoughts?
Besty
From MIL:
Havn't got the july 2009 Awake yet so can't comment on that except that if thats what they are saying, it does smack of double standards. My thoughts are generally - why don't you leave it alone? We all know that the organisation does loads of things wrong.
You made a decision that you dont want anything to do with the witnesses beliefs and that you dont believe in God. It just makes it more painful for you both that because of that you've lost friends. You know I agree with a lot of what you say but I still have a faith in God and still believe that things will at some point change in line with his plans for the earth.
No-one wants their faith knocked with nothing tangible to put in its place.
Why keep looking at the magazines to find more fault with the way the society does things - you already believe they are bad and in the wrong. It really isn't productive, just frustrating for you. You havn't changed your religeon, you simply don't believe in any of them or God and it alienates you somewhat from anyone who has a faith.
I love you all unconditionally but I feel that you should just get on with your new lives and new friends, I hope you include FIL and me among them still, I dont want any of this to come between us.
Lots and lots of love,
MIL
hello MIL - thanks for replying - I always enjoy hearing what you have to say....I view this conversation purely as an intellectual exercise and it has absolutely nothing to do with our relationship - SweetPea thanks her lucky stars every day she has normal parents :-) so don't take any of this exchange as too serious - its just a bit of banter :-)
Trust me - the Awake does say word for word what I quoted - I've seen it.
The reason I don't 'leave it alone' is because this particular practice of the WTS (extreme shunning) has destroyed my already tenuous relationship with immediate family. Friends - I already had and have got new ones - apart from AC and AM - the others just happened to live near us or were SP's friends. If there is any change in the shunning practice then I have the right to know about it - likewise if the WTS is speaking out of both sides of its mouth on the subject - and they do - then I want to know about that too.
My take on faith is a rational one, meaning that it is subject to the laws of logic, reason and falsifiability. I cannot prove that God exists (neither can anyone else) and therefore I choose to believe - note that beliefs are different from facts - that God most probably does not exist. I don't need to have faith or to believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. I know it will. It's a falsifiable fact. On the other hand I do have faith in the intrinsic goodness of human nature. I believe this to be true, but without evidence or fact based proof.
Faith can only truly be replaced by something tangible - there is no other option - otherwise you would simply be exchanging one set of faith-based beliefs for another set. For me truth is more important than faith, faith without truth is meaningless. So yes please - knock my faith and I will thank you for doing it - I would prefer to have 'nothing' but be secure knowing that my 'nothing' was for real. It seems to me that the more control a religion seeks to exert on its members the weaker the faith it produces. Like the Pharisees adopting a works-based route to salvation, it doesn't seem to produce the best results. Shunning is a window into this mindset - the Pharisees were quick to legalistically expel from the synagogue and yet Jesus spent time with the sinners - go figure!
The WTS don't allow fact-based analysis of their beliefs by existing members. Why not? Because it leads the inquirer to the inescapable conclusion that the WTS are promoting beliefs they must know are incompatible with provable facts - the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 is a perfect example of this. A global flood that occurred 4000 years ago is another. Modern humans on the planet only 6000 years is another. The Bible promoting a ban on red blood cell therapy but allowing hemoglobin therapy (97% of a red blood cell) is another. Do you see how when beliefs contradict facts that we have a choice to make, particularly when those beliefs may be life threatening? This is what JW's describe as putting things on the shelf, and when the shelf gets full they leave.
I have chosen the strictly rational route of sticking with the facts, but I have absolutely no problem with people choosing a faith-based belief system - but please don't try and validate it with pseudo-science and selective out of context quoting of experts - accept faith for what it is - a fundamentally irrational, unfalsifiable set of beliefs. And that's fine. I completely support the concept of freedom of religion - including Jehovah's Witnesses - until that religion becomes harmful to other people. Like I support smokers rights - but other people have a right to breathe clean air - so go smoke your heart out away from me! And that is where I have an ongoing problem with the WTS - they are promoting a belief system that is making me (and the kids incidentally) a passive smoker every day that I'm being shunned.
I have changed my religion - I was a Jehovah's Witness and now I'm not. That's a change of religion. What I've changed it to is irrelevant. I don't accept that my atheism has to be an alienating factor from people with a religious faith. I have no axe to grind and it would run counter to my atheistic belief that we are all just human beings for better or worse. I have in fact made good friends with a born-again ex-JW up in Scotland. I congratulated him on his recent baptism and expressed that I was truly happy that he has found contentment in his life. And he accepted those sentiments in the full knowledge I don't believe in any of it. And the same goes for individual JW's - I'm happy if they have peace - but for so long as the WTS are damaging family relationships and doling out arbitrary life-affecting medical advice I will have a problem with them i.e. the WTS not the individual JW's - see my above faith in the intrinsic goodness of human nature :-)
Oh well - that's my take on it - if you want to continue the discussion thats fine by me - if not then that's fine by me too - like I say - just a bit of banter :-)
I also want to hear what FIL has to say on the subject :-)
love besty
x
