Can't scan it tonight, but will do so soon. I'm awaiting another response (they take about 2 months to tell me they're too busy) And when I finally decide to leave (DA) I'll post the entire back and forth for the forum. It is a funny one I wrote the branch - they told me they were too busy ask the elders. The elders took 5 months to talk to me. Found out what my questions were and then wrote to the branch to be told what to do! LOL! I know they got a response more than 2 months ago ,but they still haven't even called me. Oh well.
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails 421 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Leolaia
I was simply asked for names of non JW scholars who have supported the 607 date and not all of those are living today I thought that the list of names was sufficient.
You were asked to counter the claim that "JW's have zero independent verification" for 607 BC. The emphasis was on the independence of the "non JW sources" from the JWs.
In response, you cited ONLY non-JW writers who were affiliated with groups that originated with Charles T. Russell and his Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They use 607 BC because Russell used 607 BC, just as is the case with JWs. A non-JW is not automatically independent of JWs by virtue of being non-JW, as some non-JWs have a shared common history with JWs. Like all those cited in your post.
So instead of countering the claim, you have basically confirmed it.
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allelsefails
Oh no I can't see the most recent posts. Not even mine. Sucks.
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Leolaia
Your question is too easy for starters if you want scriptural proof for 537 BCE for the Return then you only need to read the last few verses of 2 Chronicles and then proceed to read Ezra 1:1 until 3:1. This contains all of the esential historical and chronological data that you need. Enjoy the feast.
Really? Where does it indicate the chronological year B.C. to start from?
NB: Since I didn't have the opportunity to edit my last post which never appeared until now, I wish to add of course that Russell's date originally was 606 BC which subsequently was altered to 607 once it became clear that no such year as 0 BC existed.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13236
You need to use the data and then build your own chronology or you can simply determine the modern day calendation for the 1st year of Cyrus as done by the 'celebrated WT scholars'.
scholar JW
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13205
I disagree with your comments about C.I Scofield and his discussion of the Gentile Times and its linkage with Daniel 4 and Luke 21:24. His discussion of the subject by means of footnotes certainly mirrors the WT interpretation and clearly links Luke with Daniel. There are course minor differences ob interpretation between WT and Scofield and his team of Editors as was the case of those clergymen who published that Manifesto during the Great War. The evidence certainly suggests that it was the thinking of the day that at that time the Gentile Times as explained in Daniel ch.2and 4 and Luke 21:24 was soon to end by means of God's Kingdom.
scholar JW
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13206
Jeremiah along with other prophets was quite emphatic that Judah would be entirely desolated without an inhabitant for seventy years and recent scholaship in moving down this road of appreciating this historical fact. Do not forget that it was scholar on this forum that first introduced the book on the subject of the Myth of the Empty Land as it provides the scholarly discussion of this subject but one needs to read the literature published since that book to see how the debate is progressing.
scholar JW
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13207
The tree dream of Neb. obviously has a greater fulfillment because of its repeated references to God's Kingdom which elevates the dream and its interpretation beyond that of a simple chastisement of a naughty king. Further, there is the Introduction of ch 4 which states the lesson of what was to follow and finally Neb's confession. These literary elements along with the theme of Daniel which by scholarly consensus is that of the Kingdom and the the use of 'times' clearly proves that the dream and iys fulfillment is eschatological.
Modern day expositors also saw that double meaning in the dream and this is proved by a similar interpretation by Scofield, his editors and many prominent clergy who lived through the Great War.
I could if I had the time, the computer skills and the motivation to provide a scholarly account of matters but I simply choose not to but prefer instead to respond to posts such as yours and others in the manner in which I have accustomed. I do things this way because my intent is not to convince or convert you but simply to provide an alternative to the specious claims of devious apostates who have no love of truth or 'The Truth'.
scholar JW
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allelsefails
Spike you have yet to prove to anyone that there is a mention of God's Kingdom in the "tree dream" the fact that God can give or take power away from human kings is NOT a reference to God's Universal kingdom NOR a reference to the Messianic Kingdom which is what you are actually claiming.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Leo,
Don't deny the scholarly scholarship of scholars such as "celebrated non-JW scholar" Morton Edgar who scholarfully scholarized:
THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS had a strange ibis-headed god named Thoth, who was reputed to be the "Measurer of Times and Seasons," and "Scribe of the Sacred Books." Thoth, however, was a myth; but the GREAT PYRAMID is declared in the real Sacred Book, the Bible, to be a sign and Witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt (See Isa xix:19, 20). The GREAT PYRAMID is now known to be the true "Measurer of Celestial Times and Seasons."
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While the actual measurements he used are now known to be erroneous (the South wall of the Gallery does not lean outward seven inches, but, rather, 21 1/4 inches, -nor did Smyth say that the South wall leaned .5 outward seven inches, for this was the calculation of some other Pyramid student after Smyth’s day, and the error has been copied by subsequent writers without further investigation), the thought expressed by Brother Russell may be accepted as correct. By the accurate measurements, recognising the 1914-date indication at the virtual floor-end of the Gallery, the date 1874 A.D. is indicated by the opening of the passage to the "Construction Chambers." Also the date 1878 is appropriately indicated by this opening.
More scholarly Morton Edgar scholarship here: http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/treatises/edgar%20parsons%20letters.htm
People, if you want to know more about "The Truth", just read the pyramid!
