70 years = 607? (page 19)

Mr. Majestic

Don't you trouble yourself about scholar.

Didn’t know I was…..

All chronology has by its very nature 'wiggle room' because our knowledge of the past is imperfect or incomplete and there is nothing here to apologize for. But one thing for certain our chronology has no 'big wiggles' or'gaps' as the chronology accepted by apostates has. So when you have plugged the 'gaps' then you can live with the 'wiggle' as scholar in his wisdom does. He is happy with the 'wiggle' or the 'woggle'.

Your gap or gaps is proved by the missing 'twenty years' during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer for starters and that is just the beginning because of the failure to recognize the seventy years of servitude-exile-desolation of the Jews during the period of Babylonian domination.

You have presented nothing to prove your assertion that 538 BCE is the date for the Return. This year does not accommodate the historical reality from the time of Cyrus' Decree until the seventh month in the year of the Return. Neither does it account for the reign of Darius whereupon in Daniel 9:1, Daniel refers to a 'first year of Darius'. So, 538 BCE must be exempted because it lacks historical substance whereas 537 BCE accommodates all of the data.

Daniel 4 is about God's Kingdom and right to rule over mankind which means sovereignty and Nebuchadnezzer confessed to this simple fact after the end of seven years of abasement. The dream has several features that prove that it has a far greater significance becaus ethat kingdom was yet to be a reality in men's affairs awaiting the arrival of Jesus Christ to be installed by God as Ruler of that Kingdom for this is proved by the prophecy in Daniel 4:17.,

Your argument about God always ruling simply negates or buries the reality of a coming Kingdom that was prophesied to occur and really is utter nonsense. Too silly for words. You should study the subject of the kingdom more closely. If your argument is so then what is the Gospel which means good news of a furture or coming kingdom at some point in time.

The tree dream in Daniel 4 requires and demands interpretaion for that is the reason why Nebuchadnezzer sought out Daniel to do just that interpret and as God and so it is today that this dream demands an interpretation during the 'time of the end'- Daniel 12:4.

Yes we are entitled to our interpretation and so are you so perhaps we must agree to disagree.

scholar JW

scholar

Mad Dawg

Post 183

You should consult Insight On The Scriptures, 1988, Vol.1.pp.568-569 under the heading 'Cyrus' Decree for the Return of the Exiles under the article entitled CYRUS for a more detailed discussion on this matter. Enjoy!

scholar JW

Hobo Ken

The

Watchtower has abandoned the date of 1935 for the closing of the sealing of the annointed doctrine , reason:-

There are no scriptures to back it up.

The watchtower Society has admitted that 1918 is now "an interesting possibilty" in relation to their heavenly resurrection doctrine, reason:-

There are no scriptures to back it up.

The watchtower Society is mentioning the 1914 doctrine less and less. My local co-ordinator admitted to me that it is NOT a Bible doctrine. The reason?

He could not prove that the Bible teaches what is essentially a series of mathematical formulae and leaps of logic to arrive at the year 1914.

I wonder of the society were to eventually bin this doctrine how people like scholar would feel?

These people want and need to believe , which they are entirely welcome to do if they wish.

In a few short years those Gentile times will have ended ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS GOING TO A HUGE EMBARRASSMENT TO THE WATCHTOWER!!!!!!!

Hobo

scholar

Mary

Post 10673

Thank you for reproducing the footnote but as usual you lack comprehension because you failed to understand what is stated for it clearly staes that the meaning is for the Aramaic word which is what Daniel used is 'appointed times' or time periods. later translations such as in Greek give 'years' but the Septuagint renders it as kairoi which means 'appointed times'. Later, the Latin also translates the Aramaic word as tempora which means 'yeara' or again as 'times'. Further, in proof of the fact that iddanim means 'times' is supported by the footnote in the Hermeneia commentary on Daniel by John Collins which I have referred to in a previous posting on this subject.

Your argument that the tree dream is nothing more than a chastisement of a king overlooks the blatant fact that the entire chapter is about the Kingdom of God and Sovereignty which Nebuchadnezzer confessed as to its reality so it is not surprising when you obscure this fact then you see nothing more than a simple story.

You also choose to ignore the lingusitic connection between iddanim and kairoi as demonstrated in the NWT footnote which clearly proves that those 'seven times' were not literal years but a period of years. In fact, Jesus as recorded at Luke 21;24 used kairos and not chronos as you falsely allege and by the use of this word and the context of Jerusalem which typified the Kinngdom of God- the theme of Daniel 4 certainly connects well exegetically with the seven 'times' of Daniel 4.

scholar JW

Mary

The dream has several features that prove that it has a far greater significance becaus ethat kingdom was yet to be a reality in men's affairs awaiting the arrival of Jesus Christ to be installed by God as Ruler of that Kingdom for this is proved by the prophecy in Daniel 4:17.,

Again, I ask that you provide any scriptural evidence of such a claim 'scholar'. You can't because there is absolutely NOTHING in Daniel chapter 4 that indicates it means anything other than what happened to Nebuchadnezzar. There is certainly nothing prophetic about Jesus, the Gentile Times or 1914 anywhere in there---not unless you've been smoking crack cocaine. (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here scholar and assume that the drugs you take are all prescription).

scholar

Ann O Maly

Post 944

But those predicted events did come about with the outbreak of World War 1 and the ending of the Gentile Times as corroborated by the media of the day and several clergyman some years later. Thus, those Bible Students were forever vindicated for their integrity.

scholar JW

scholar

Mary

Post 10677

Trawling through previous Watchtower publications in order to deconstruct our position or in order to prove an apostate agenda is futile and foolishness.The overriding fact is that there are far greater imperatives for Christians and the Church and these are to Preach the Gospel and to Keep on the Watch. These two things Witnesses from early times of the last century and more have clearly done. The forementioned quotes that you have nicley reproduced show that sincerity alone has little merit but must reside in truth which cedrtainly characterizes the mission and ministry of Jehovah's Winesses both past and present.

scholar JW

Hobo Ken

I don't need to be "vindicated" for my integrity or beliefs in any dates.

As a Christian I will lead my life the way Jesus counsels , "No man knows the day or the hour". I don't serve with a date in mind from the past or the future. If you need 1914 to have a strong faith then you have a massive deficiency.

The Watchtower Society prophecies about 1914 all failed and they lied in their publications to make it seem llike they were right.

The Bible says clearly ,do not follow false prophets.

The Watchtower society admitted they were false prophets under oath in court. (Walsh case 1954)

I don't follow them or their false prophecies such as 1914 ,1915, 1925, 1975 etc etc........

Fill your boots Scholar......you deserve each other.

scholar

isaac austin

Post 1487

You need to brush up on your comprehension skills for past and present experience has demonstrated to schola rthat apostates have poor comprehension skills. Firstly, the account in Ezra 3:8 nowhere indicates in what year of Cyrus the temple foundation was laid for the text only states that" And in the second year of their coming to the house of the true God at Jerusalem, in the second month... Secondly, just because Josephus states that the temple foundation was laid in the "second year of Cyrus" does not necessarily equate for the purpose of chronology for Josephus does not mention in what month this occurred.

Celebrated WT scholars in dealing with the chronology of this period have determined from the Bible record that the Temple foundation was laid in the second month in the year after the Jews returned which would be 536 BCE. The attempted synchronization of Ezra 3:8 with Josephus remains a dilemna for scholars and scholar himself has an interest in this matter. Interestingly, a chart entitled Chronology -Ezra-Nehemiah on page 667, in The NIV STUDY BIBLE, 1995, Zondervan agrees with us that the Jews built the altar in the 7th month 537 BCE and began work on the Temple in the 2nd month 536 BCE.

Alan F long ago tried to synchronize Ezra 3:8 with Josephus but scholar trounced him on it so at face value there may be some merit in the argument but the detail puts the argument aside for further research by competent scholars and scholar himself no doubt will sove the problem. One cannot base an argument on assumption as Alan F tried to do and so are you, an argument such as this must be based on what the text actually states and not the reading into the text something of an apostate agenda.

scholar JW

70 years = 607?

Share this