God, Morals, and Atheists

by UnDisfellowshipped 151 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Satanus

  Btw, here is some info on chimps and empathy. It's from wikipedia and referenced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee

  Recent studies have shown that chimpanzees engage in apparently altruistic behaviour within groups [ 21 ] [ 22 ] , but are indifferent to the welfare of unrelated group members [ 23 ] .

  Evidence for "chimpanzee spirituality" includes display of mourning, "incipient romantic love", "rain dance", appreciation of natural beauty such as a sunset over a lake, curiosity and respect towards wildlife (such as the python, which is neither a threat nor a food source to chimpanzees), empathy toward other species (such as feeding turtles) and even "animism" or "pretend play" in chimps cradling and grooming rocks or sticks. [ 24 ] However, whether or not these behaviors are best explained with reference to spirituality is still debated.

  1. ^ "Human-like Altruism Shown In Chimpanzees". Science Daily. 2007-06-25 . http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070625085134.htm . Retrieved on 2007-08-11 .
  2. ^ Bradley, Brenda (June 1999). "Levels of Selection, Altruism, and Primate Behavior". The Quarterly Review of Biology74 (2): 171–194. doi: 10.1086/393070 .
  3. ^Nature 437, 1357-1359 (27 October 2005)
  4. ^Appendices for chimpanzee spirituality by James Harro
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  Parakeet,

  I'm sorry. I didn't word my post the way I should have. And I commend you for putting your family first.

  I should have said, your sinful desires (just like every single one of us have). God views all people as slaves to their sinful natures unless they come to Jesus for salvation and deliverance from sin. That's what the Bible says. God is not going to judge you for putting your family first, but for the sinful nature you have (just like all of us).
• 

  BurnTheShips

  I'm an atheist. What god do I serve?

  That's easy. I know just from looking at your avatar.

  

  I had a Quaker Parrot once also, and he forced me to serve him. They are called "quaker" because you are supposed to tremble before them. Some call them "Monk Parakeets" instead, because they require a vow of eternal undivided service.

  He decided my sacrifices weren't worthy of his August Featherness, so he flew away to join the local wild flock.

  It was a local elder visiting. Manolo absolutely hated neckties and literature dedicated to a false featherless God (but mostly neckties) and flew out the open door squawking.

  I miss him to this day.

  BTS
• 

  Satanus

  'But, the Objective Moral Law does not DESCRIBE how people WILL act, it PRESCRIBES how people SHOULD act.'

  Ahh, so it's about how they would like to be treated, instead of how they actually treat others. My cat has the Objective Moral Law hardwired for sure, then;)

  S
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  Even if apes and chimps do have a Moral Law built in (or hardwired) to them, then my argument still stands.

  I am not arguing against evolution, and I'm not arguing that morality is a uniquely human attribute.

  I am arguing that:

  1:) All prescriptions are given by a prescriber.

  2:) Moral Prescriptions exist within us (and possibly within animals as well)

  3:) Therefore, there must be a Moral Prescriber.
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  And, at the very least, even if this doesn't convince everyone, it has shown clearly where Atheism leads if taken to its logical conclusions, and I have also shown that you cannot successfully use the "Argument from Evil" against Christians.

  When this argument is combined with the Kalam Cosmological Argument and the Argument from Reason, I believe that a reasonable person will see that it is just as likely (if not more likely) that our Morality originates with a Creator than mindless physical laws and blind chance.

  Just wait till I post a thread about "The Argument from Reason"!
• 

  SacrificialLoon

  So which absolute moral laws of the bible do you follow? Do you own slaves? Do you condone polygamy? If a leader in your religion said we need to kill everyone in this city here because the LORD commands us to do so would you follow him like the Israelites followed Joshua? Do you treat women like lesser vessels? How about homosexuals? Do you view them as an abomination? How about the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, or any other religious text? What makes the absolute moral laws from the Bible better than the absolute moral laws from any other book given by any other God or gods?

  There is nothing 'absolute' about morals, they are constructs of societies, and contribute to the success or failure of societies.

  How do we know that it was the ones who had empathy that survived better?

  Survival of the fittest, we see this as a trait in most social creatures, but we do also see narcissism which is another more individialistic survival trait, but they need a functioning society to take advantage of so they're usually in the minority. Sort of like a social predator.
• 

  Satanus

  'it has shown clearly where Atheism leads if taken to its logical conclusions,'

  No you haven't. If an absolute moral code is hardwired in humans, then atheists have it too. It isn't based on believe in deity.

  'I have also shown that you cannot successfully use the "Argument from Evil" against Christians.'

  If you say so. What ya gonna do the next time they use it on you?

  S
• 

  BurnTheShips

  If you say so. What ya gonna do the next time they use it on you?

  Release the Rancor.

  
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  Satanus,

  Atheism leads to the belief that all morals are subjective and relative, which you yourself admitted earlier in this thread. So, yes, I did show where Atheism leads.

  Atheists can continue to use the "Argument from Evil" all they want, they just can't use it successfully against the points I raised in my first post.