space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

by aChristian 251 Replies latest jw friends

aChristian

IW,
You are right. I was too tough on Clash and I came across as a spell checking Pharisee. I'm not usually like that. I should have just ignored him. I sometimes let Fundies like Clash here get to me. And I know I shouldn't.
It seems they are only here to tell me, and everyone else who disagrees with them, that we are all in "serious error." Since leaving the JWs and trying to find a Church home I can't tell you how many Christians have told me that because I have questioned teachings such as a global flood and six 24-hour creation days that I am not really a Christian. Since I left the Watchtower I have learned much and have changed many of beliefs. I hope to continue learning and growing. I do not engage in discussions with others here just to show them their "serious error." I engage in discussions here with an open mind, hoping to learn from others, or to at least have my faith and beliefs "refined by fire" by allowing my faith and beliefs to be challenged. I have little patience lately for those here who seem to have a much different attitude. I know I should not. For I too was once a person who thought I knew everything, and thus could learn nothing. Like most here, I was once a JW.
Clash, if you are listening, I'm sorry for acting like a jerk. Please forgive me.
Faithful2Jah

I think everything that csn possibly be said about this subject has been said. Why dont you people save this all to disks and the next time someone brings up this subject of the flood again you can just run this again and save everybody a lot of time. But for now you can put a fork in this subject because its done.
AlanF

I think everything that csn possibly be said about this subject has not been said. Why dont you "Faithful2Jah in your own minds" types save your breath to disks and the next time someone brings up this subject of the flood again you can just run this again and get clobbered again. But for now you can put a fork in this subject because its done.
aChristian

Faithful,
You wrote: put a fork in this subject because its done.
That's ok. Things were getting way too serious here anyway. We needed a break. I'll tell you what I could use. A good old fashioned Bibleman post. One with a couple references to "fake chronolgy," two or three astrographs and a nice photo of him in a slinky dress and high heels. Just for laughs.
clash_city_rockers

AChristian posted:
“Now, it is certainly possible that English is not your first language. If it is not, I highly commend you for the progress you have made in learning a new language. But I also suggest that, until you make further progress in learning to speak and write the English language, you find a discussion board in your native language on which you are able to fluently discuss your beliefs. If, by chance, English is actually your native language, then I will be glad to respond to any of your posts that clearly appear to have been both proofread and spell checked.”
Response: Dodging questions and a legitimate cross examination by name calling and inane ad hom attacks only reflects in your lack of integrity and reveals your unwillingness to be accountable to the body of Christ.
Question for aChristian:
1. Do you go to a BIBLE believing church?
2. Does YOUR church that you attend, in particular the elders subscribe to your particular doctrinal distinctive that you have mentioned on this board?
Achristian posted:
“I was simply repeating what I already told him very politely and at great length several posts up”
Response: You have not told me a whole lot nor address my particular questions at any depth.
A Christian posted:
“I sometimes let Fundies like Clash here get to me.”
Response: What is wrong with people who completely believe the bible who hold to plenary verbal inspiration, that believe in the ennerrency of the bible. Many Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and independents believe in this doctrine. Yes, they are “fundies” but because they like I take scriptures seriously. And yet you speak of us in pejorative terms. If you claim to be a Christian then you would stand with us and not give fuel to those who are antagonistic against the gospel (if you believe in the same gospel as us historic evangelicals protestants).

AChristan posted:
“Since leaving the JWs and trying to find a Church home I can't tell you how many Christians have told me that because I have questioned teachings such as a global flood and six 24-hour creation days that I am not really a Christian.”
Response: Look, I don’t think these brothers in Christ are trying to be mean. But they do have a darn good reason why they believe what they believe. If you where teachable and gave them a chance they could probably give you a biblical explanation. Have you found a good and competent bible believing pastor with good biblical exegetical skills? You have to understand that your doctrines effect not just creation but the doctrine of man, sin, justification, and the sovereignty of God.
A Christian posted:
“Since I left the Watchtower I have learned much and have changed many of beliefs. I hope to continue learning and growing. I do not engage in discussions with others here just to show them their "serious error." I engage in discussions here with an open mind, hoping to learn from others, or to at least have my faith and beliefs "refined by fire" by allowing my faith and beliefs to be challenged.”
Response: That is good that you are learning and I honestly hope that you are truly growing in the Lord. But if you claim to be a Christian then you do not go to a board like this and have you faith strengthen or refined, that is done in the church with other Christians “as Iron Sharpens Iron so one man sharpens another” Proverbs 27:17. Your duty here is to diligently challenge the unbeliever in his/her unbelief and champion the Cross of Christ. “Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord we persuade men:” 2 Corinthians 5:11. My job and every EX-JW who now holds the banner of Christ is to lovingly, with compassion, passionately defend with the scriptures, and with good sound intellectual argument the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ not only that but to intellectually nuke the arguments brought up by the unbeliever to kingdom come. [J] “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, CASTING down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:4,5. If you don’t like this passage then maybe your at war with God. “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense(apologetics) to everyone who asks you for the reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.” 1 Peter 3:15
AChristian writes:
” Clash, if you are listening, I'm sorry for acting like a jerk. Please forgive me.”
Response: No problem man. I hope your apology was sincere and not disingenuous. But I do want to dialog on the issue of free will.
Agape,
jr
AlanF

Off His Rocker said:
: Dodging questions and a legitimate cross examination by name calling and inane ad hom attacks ...
aChristian didn't call you any names or engage in "inane ad hom attacks". He stated that your spelling and grammar and misuse of words make your posts nearly unintelligible -- and that's true. Do you think your spelling and grammar and word usage are less than atrocious? Do you really think you write intelligibly? He also stated his reasons for not wanting to deal with more of your unintelligible natter, after getting back nothing but more of the same after answering you earlier. Do you have a problem with that?
Here's a good example of your unintelligible natter. You asked:
: 2. Does YOUR church that you attend, in particular the elders subscribe to your particular doctrinal distinctive that you have mentioned on this board?
What is a "doctrinal distinctive"?
It's obvious that English is your native language. Only a native could muck it up the way you do.
: What is wrong with people who completely believe the bible who hold to plenary verbal inspiration, that believe in the ennerrency of the bible.
Those who take pains to claim that they believe in the total inerrancy of the Bible also believe that the earth is flat, the universe was created in six 24-hour days, and that a global flood occurred a few thousand years ago. Each of those things is demonstrably false. Do you need instruction as to why believing demonstrably false things is wrong?
Such people also tend to be hypocrites in that they will arbitrarily apply different standards to different Bible stories whenever it suits their desires. For example, most of today's Fundies no longer believe that the earth is flat. Why? Because hard science has disproved it, and so they've had to go back and reinterpret the Bible. But when hard science disproves notions like "a young earth" and "a global flood", they stick with their tradition.
: Look, I don’t think these brothers in Christ are trying to be mean. But they do have a darn good reason why they believe what they believe.
Right. They think they're nearly inspired, or that Holy Spirit is directing their thoughts, or that their interpretations of the Bible are perfect. They're exactly like the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
: If you where teachable and gave them a chance they could probably give you a biblical explanation.
Where oh where have we heard this before? Surely not from Jehovah's Witnesses!
AlanF
IslandWoman

clash_city_rockers,
You said: "Your duty here is to diligently challenge the unbeliever in his/her unbelief and champion the Cross of Christ. “Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord we persuade men:” 2 Corinthians 5:11. My job and every EX-JW who now holds the banner of Christ is to lovingly, with compassion, passionately defend with the scriptures, and with good sound intellectual argument the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ not only that but to intellectually nuke the arguments brought up by the unbeliever to kingdom come. [J] “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, CASTING down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:4,5. If you don’t like this passage then maybe your at war with God."
In particular I am addressing the words, "If you don't like this passage then maybe you're at war with God."
Those are mighty powerful words, actually Christians have echoed those words for almost 2000 years while SAVING the "unbeliever". The South American Indians come to mind, yep lots of good Christian saving went on! The expulsion and forced conversion of Jews during the Spanish Inquisition is again another living example of: If you don't like this passage then maybe you're at war with God.
What is this with you Christians? Jesus practiced inclusion and had such love that the humble were drawn to him. Christians practice exclusion and many times must use verbal billy clubs in order to make converts.
Why can't Christians just kindly encourage someone by sharing the words of their Master with them and then leave things in God's hands, having faith in God that he himself is able to make truth grow?
IW
hillary_step

Hello,
It seems to me that fundamentalist Christians are the greatest recruiters for the cause of atheism since the Russian Revolution.
Their desire to create a ‘static’ theological environment for each eon that they happen to live in does Christianity a disservice.
Perhaps the biggest error made by these people is their imagining that Christianity as a system of principle, which was all that Jesus taught in his sermons, should not evolve as a belief but should be dragged from era to era and its adherents forced to ignore reality while they try to establish a corner of the C1st in the C21st.
A refreshing perspective, and one I happen to agree with, is contained in a book by Martin Palmer entitled, ‘Living Christianity’, in which he argues that fundamental Christianity has been a major contributor to many of the more destructive ideas and attitudes in Western culture, due in large part to its inability to accept a doctrine of change. His basic contention is that the Church has given emphasis to all the wrong attributes about Christ and has subsequently lost sight of the many varied and vital ways that the principle of ‘agape’ should challenge each culture that adopts it.
As IW notes, many who in the past have seen the need for change have been the most persecuted by their fellow Christians, which rather reminds us of another fundamentalist group, the WTS. Fundamental Christianity has a very dismal historical record.
As for me, well I have far more questions that answers, but though I may not entirely know what is right, I certainly know what is wrong.
Best regards -- HS
SixofNine

Fundamental Christianity has a very dismal historical record.
Strike me 40 times less 6 or 9 for saying this Lord; perhaps if they'd had some guidance?
hillary_step

Six,
Strike me 40 times less 6 or 9 for saying this Lord, but, perhaps if they'd had some guidance?
lol - Go in peace my son, and remember never get your canon tangled.
HS

space.com dates Noah's flood to 2350 B.C.

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