BASHING the families of disfellowshiped ones

by Pistoff 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Pistoff

  As if the first assembly day was not bad enough, talking about the greedy, fame hungry witnesses who go to college and WILL NOT get blessings from Jehovah, Sunday was worse.

  I could tell the wife was not happy the minute she came through the door. After letting her get her "lemonade" in a glass, I said, "so, no rough talks today?"

  This started a 20 minute diatribe over a talk about the great danger of talking to disfellowshiped ones. The take away points:

  • "The bible does not separate out Mom, Dad daughter or son when talking about" those who are removed; we are not to talk to anyone who is disfellowshipped.
  • He (DO) said "this is not just me talking", all circuit overseers got a letter with this information. (more on this later)
  • To rationalize association with disfellowshiped ones is a sign of OVERCONFIDENCE, as if you know more than Jehovah about the matter
  • "it is only when they have nothing that they will come back" to Jehovah and the congregation
  • it is a matter of loyalty, who will we be loyal to, Jehovah or the df'd one? (This is a false choice, of course, and removes individual judgement of the situation)
  • If we think that we are strong enough that they are not going to harm us, we "are OVERCONFIDENT "
  • We might touch the person's heart (I know enough df'd ones to say that being shunned, especially for some, is devastating; their heart is not touched, they are emotionally damaged, some of them for life)
  • "Do I have an obedient heart?" "This is not about us, it is about Jehovah"

  At this point my wife walked out of the auditorium, not able to listen any more.

  You have to know this: my wife is a loyal witness. She is not a true blue believer, but has always been able to somehow to sift out the crazy material; I could not. For me, learning that they botched sex abuse scandals was all it took to really research the teachings and practices. The other thing is this; she IS LOYAL. She troops on as best as she can, she takes notes, she really tries.

  But for years the wife could somehow deal with the stupid stuff, like the constant ravings about df'ed ones. We have a disfellowshiped adult child, kicked out LONG ago for drugs. He has been clean over 10 years, married, toddler, STABLE. He just chooses to not come back, why? Because he is not able to lie to the JC about believing it is the truth. Ironic, right? The values that we taught him keep him from lying to be reinstated. I support him, and so does his mother, my wife. We see him as much as we can, for us, for him and to know his family as much as we can. After all, Saturday's program stated that "family is precious, and a gift from Jehovah".

  So she has made an adult choice, a choice that a PARENT and family member has the right to. And then she goes the CA and gets BASHED up and down, first day for the evils of college (God only in a cult is education the enemy) and the second day for emotionally supporting and talking to her disfellowshiped son; that's right, for being there for her flesh and blood as he goes through life's trials and blessings. Trust me, she is not going to be talked out of her beliefs or stumbled by the df'ed son; she is strong.

  But she was just crushed yesterday; I have a feeling that they have SO turned up the rhetoric on college and association with df'd ones that she has finally noticed how toxic they really are. I have a feeling also that she can't take another session like that.

  The reality is that we had children who tested limits, who got into trouble in the late teens but who have recovered very well, and are now high achievers but not interested in being witnesses. We supported them all along; after all, they are our flesh and blood, right? God's gift to us, right? Why would anyone question our decisions as parents to support our children, TALK to our children?

  I wonder what will happen.

  I am very angry today.

  P
• 

  milola

  I am wondering why my parents have made no mention of an assembly? It has been so long since I have been associated, but I always thought the assemblies were within weeks of each other. Any way if they have yet to get this pep talk I feel sorry for them when they do. If they come at me again with not being able to talk to me I may just have to write a letter to them explaining my position on things. And believe after having read for months on this site and provided links I would have a mouthfull. It would be so sad for them because they know if they need me I would be there.
• 

  carla

  Wow. I'm so glad your wife is able to see some things in the wt.

  I really will never get the jw view about talking to people with different views. If your faith is that weak that merely having a discussion with an 'opposer' will get you to possibly leave the wt, then where is a jw's faith? they have none. Their brand of faith isn't a heartfelt soulful (sorry, I don't know how else to describe it (soulful) or how a jw would describe it) faith but a collection of 'facts' and figures that are so often subject to change that the gb has put themselves in a pickle with changing doctrines. If a jw can so readily accept such changes they can reason themself out of the wt if they were allowed to look at any info. I suppose the constant drilling in the head of 'taking in accurate knowledge' vs 'knowing Christ' is too deeply ingrained for many jw's.

  I hope your wife never follows the wt shunning policies with your children & grandchildren. Your son won't lie to the jc? hmph! the nerve of him! lunatics.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  This horrible lack of honest love they teach, festered inside my soul for decades before I finally saw through the doctinal problems and left.

  I never could do the 'I love you, hence I will not speak to you' shit they espouse. They call such inane thinking 'Godly' conduct. It is actually 'Devil-think' IMO, to believe that anyone who is struggling already [hence df'd or reproved or inactive] with a religion, would be 'encouraged' to return based on such hateful actions on the part of those who supposedly love them.

  It just makes me vomit to hear that they are pounding it even harder now than ever. But on the other hand - seeing that lack of love just might help a few people to see the cult for what it is. I know that it is painful to come to that realization - but perhaps your wife will look back someday and recount how this assembly 'put her over the top' and started her journey out of the organization.

  Peace brother

  Jeff
• 

  Pistoff

  I wonder why they are ramping it up; they must see that the rank and file are not taking them seriously. I can't see that it makes any difference to the average witness that they talk to a df'd person; is their faith that tenuous that it will crumble when you have contact with a df'd person?

  On the other hand, they seem to be drawing a line in the sand; if you associate with a disfellowshiped person, you are anathema.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  The GB know that witness faith is built on sand - after all they mined the sand and told us to build on it.

  So, the R&F faith is tenuous. The only way to hold them is by fear, intimidation - market it as 'trust in God'.

  Jeff
• 

  Pistoff

  They are driving out the center-minded ones; the ones who work the system just ignore this, and the true blues just listen and do.

  The middle of the road is being hammered harder and harder; for the first time, I am wondering if they really are on the fast decline.

  P
• 

  mraimondi

  "it is only when they have nothing that they will come back" to Jehovah and the congregation

  lol... I already had nothing. I had nowhere else to go besides your congregation and i didnt go there.

  fucking shove it.
• 

  ziddina

  Carla, do you mind if I quote you here?? "If your faith is that weak that merely having a discussion with an 'opposer' will get you to possibly leave the wt, then where is a jw's faith..."

  By that (WTBTS) reasoning, JWs are in extreme danger every time they go out in service...

  That [circular reasoning??] is something I NEVER understood - if talking to 'disfellowshipped' ones or 'apostates' is so dangerous, what makes the WTBTS think that JWs aren't going to run into similar information and attitudes when they call at any householder's door???

  Now, I know that the WTBTS is somehow thinking that, "because it's a family member, the active JWs are more likely to listen to what they have to say..." The WTBTS is afraid - VERY AFRAID - of the possibility of constant exposure to such supposedly 'wearing' influence... But Df'd people usually just want to get back together with their families, and will do/say whatever it takes to accomplish that... Look at all the faders and lurkers here...

  If the WTBTS weren't taking such a hard-line stance, they'd actually have many more people returning...imho...

  I know they run - or are supposed to run - like scared rabbits if I mention that I'm 'apostate', or Da'd - (it didn't work, btw, they still call at my door occasionally..), but what if I were a college professor?? With a PhD in Religious studies??? What does the WTBTS think the end result would be in that case?? Or a Pastor/Priest/Reverend who intensely studies their bible? Or an archaeology student - or professor???

  That - THAT - sort of bizarre, deliberate ignorance of the 'dangers' that supposedly 'could' come from talking to a Df'd person, but that IN REALITY would more likely come from an extremely well-informed 'worldly' person at the door - that just highlights the underlying INSANITY of the WTBTS' leaders' way of thinking...

  Zid (Funny, I've been using that particular smiley a lot, lately...)
• 

  boyzone

  I feel sick.

  My parents have just booked their room for the Bournemouth UK convention in June. I don't want them to go on Sunday and listen to that talk., I really don't.