New Scientist Article - success of religion dependant on martyrs

by jwfacts 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227103.800-religions-owe-their-success-to-suffering-martyrs.html

    It is interesting that as the Watchtower has reduced the burden on its followers that its growth has fallen.Over recent years the following things has eased up;

    • number of pioneer hours
    • number of weekly meetings
    • length of meetings and assemblies
    • acceptable blood products
    • organ transplants have become acceptable

    There are other factors involved, such as a lack of an end date to keep people motivated, but maybe it is in the GB's best interests to keep the religion as strict and burdensome as possible in order to help with growth.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    from the article:

    The hypothesis still needs to be tested, for example with lab experiments on belief transmission, and historical studies of religions.

    But if Henrich is right, churches that liberalise their behavioural codes may be sabotaging themselves by reducing their followers' commitment.

    This may explain why strict evangelical Christian churches are expanding in the US at the expense of mainstream denominations.

    Lab experiments to test the effects of their domination and abuse? So congregations are no more than lab rats, now?

    I have read some scientific documentation that Scientology was born from experiments at Stanford.

    I have also read that silent sound at certain mega herz has been used in sound systems in certain churches for hypnotic effect.

    I have no doubt that much of religion has been about not only money and power, but mind manipulation on the masses.

    As far as the JWs, they try to twist everything into a persecution. (And WT encourages this.)

    I think this is why some of them cannot and will not look at the holes in this piece of cheese.

    The sense of some perceived persecution appeals to their ego and vanity.

    People who define themselves by their self-righteousness are not willing to be wrong---about anything.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Not only literal martyrs but self-sacrificial, apparently costly attitudes I was about to say -- but this is precisely what the article implies.

    "Liberal" theologians are generally all too aware of this. They are on the wrong side as far as socio-psychology is concerned. From this practical perspective fundamentalism, integrism, dogmatism are better adapted for survival. The modern history of catholic policy from Pius XI to Benedict XVI via John XXIII illustrates this nicely. Relativism may be intellectually honest but not politically practical.

    Truth doesn't create values. Violence (real or symbolical) does.

  • bohm
    bohm

    thanks for the post, its quite an interesting perspective. If anybody is interested the actual article can be found here: http://www.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Henrich_Evolution_of_Costly_Displays_accepted.pdf .(a preprint anyway)

    I guess that managing a mind-control cult is quite a delicate thing - on one hand the leadership has to be crazy to make unreasonable demands and spew out arbitrary crazy laws, on the other hand, to much and you get something like 1914, 1925, 1975 and alienate everybody but the core believers. It puts a new light on who weather one should hope for a more or less strict line from the FDS.

    Wonder if this would indicate that its hard for a cult to implode - when people start to leave, the hardliners may become paranoid (after all, it must be the works of the devil!), and instate a lot of crazy new rules...

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    I want my "carrot on a stick".....otherwise you can shove your religion!

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    This is an old debate in the sociology of religion: why do strict churches fare better?

    http://www.religionomics.com/iannaccone/papers/Iannaccone%20-%20Strict%20Churches.pdf

    It is why the governing body has probably made a classic mistake in reducing the number of meetings. A religion gets greater commitment from people by asking more from them not by asking less.

    The key change for the Witnesses happened when the leaders decided they wanted acceptance from the state rather than confrontation. The whole emphasis has changed from "refusal to compromise" to instead demonstrating that the religion is reasonable:

    Rather than pulling children out of school to avoid "compromises" the Witnesses now produce glossy brochures showing Witness children as model students.

    Rather than encouraging Witnesses to kidnap family members from hospitals to avoid blood they are allowing more blood fractions to be used.

    Rather than seeking confrontation by rejecting alternative service as well as military service they try to appease modern states by looking for compromises.

    The list goes on and on and the pattern is clear. Whereas Witnesses of an earlier generation sought conflict with the state they are now eager to reach agreement. It is a good move as far as individual Witnesses are concerned because it means fewer Witness children being used as part of a power drama between the religion and the state, and fewer Witnesses going to jail for refusing to perform service to the state. But it bodes ill for the organisation as far as future growth is concerned.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    mind you the WTS is pushing armageddon with all its might

    edit: but I guess the ark feels a bit too safe

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    It is truer to say that martyrs create faith more than faith creates martyrs. --Miguel de Unamuno

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    quietlyleaving, if their heart was really in it wouldn't they come up with a new date to look forward to? They do talk about Armageddon a lot, but it still feels lackluster to me with no generation-type framework to back it up.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    slim

    quietlyleaving, if their heart was really in it wouldn't they come up with a new date to look forward to? They do talk about Armageddon a lot, but it still feels lackluster to me with no generation-type framework to back it up.

    Yup there is a definite loss of sparkle. Check out a linked article - religion apparently flourshes when "communicators of the unreal" attract non believers by giving out clear, but arbitrary, signals that are meaningful.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13983-religion-is-a-product-of-evolution-software-suggests.html

    Regarding date setting, Ray Franz, in In Search of Christian Freedom, argues that date setting actually works against spirituality in general but imo it probably did give Wts article writers imaginative impetus

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