Divorce? Help please.

by Mulan 28 Replies latest jw friends

Mulan

You guys are the BEST!! I knew I could count on you. I felt that what she needed was to hear many people tell her what all of you have, in this thread. I am sending them to her in emails, at her work. She lives about 30 minutes from me, so we talk often.
For those who suggested therapy and research, she has been in therapy for five years, and has read everything we have, and more. She came to us six years ago, desperate for answers to her questions, that had come up, in her reading. We hadn't communicated any of our doubts about "the truth" to her. She was thrilled to see that she wasn't alone, and that we would support her. But, her husband found out, and sicked the elders on us, and the CO's from their circuit and ours. We were able to handle it well, and were not df'd. Her husband had no witnesses, and my husband did, ME. All we had to do was deny everything..........it was all so lame anyway, that we weren't even lying.
Anyway, she has had a 5-year plan, to do what she did last week, and get out. She had planned well, and moved with my husband's help, and my sons too, much to the chagrin of her husband, who hates us with a PASSION, of course. After they were married, he pretty much cut her off from this part of her family anyway. Only his family was important. He is a world class jerk, and she is a delightful, great gal, with an amazing personality, that is slowly coming back. It was so nice to see her laugh again, and joke around when she was here the other night.
Thanks again, everyone. You have helped a lot.
Richard, you are such a sweetie, to give such a great comment. I think it will mean more since you are a man, too.
LB: Ditto to you. Thanks!
Joel: Same. Great advice.
I knew some of you would think it was me. No way!! I am not giving up my happy life, with my GREAT husband, of almost 39 years (December 29). He is wonderful, and he thinks I am too.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
seven006

Mulan,

Your relative's experience is one that many of us have had to try and figure out. The JW religion is notorious in giving a false sense of security. With the scripture quoting technique it has been crafted in a way to accomplish it's own agenda and is only effective if a person accepts it as the only real truth. In addition to it's self serving carving and serving of little life tid bits it also has a way of putting a man and a woman together purely based on somewhat of a physical attraction but mainly the ease and acceptance of having a mate that is of like mind and belief. For any intelligent person who has enough love and respect for themself they need to come to the conclusion that staying in an unhealthy relationship is just another form of self abuse.
I'm sure the word "selfish" has been thrown at her. That word has only been seen in a negative connotation. When a person does not ever see the good that being selfish in a certain context can bring they could be headed for disaster. When someone gives and gives to others their whole life and nothing is giving back in return they are considered to be unselfish and acceptable. That conclusion is generally arrived upon by those who have been receiving the unselfish acts. I believe the most selfish act a person can perform is suicide. They get so caught up in what others want from them and do not have the joy and relief of finally doing something for themselves when the final straw is applied it inevitably breaks their psychological back.
Your friend needs to begin to look at being a little selfish as a good thing. It might even be a life saving experience. It is her life and life is too shot to live it being unhappy. Once she fully understands the importance of being happy she will then be able to explain it to her kids in a way a mother as well as an informed intelligent person can. The rest is up to them.
As far as her love for god goes that can remain with her by making a few mental adjustments. Her perspective on god is based on what she has been told god is by the JW's. So many who leave the religion also leave the concept of a god. Just because the JW teaching of god expressed by their actions is what drove us away from their concept of god many leave not only the JW belief but the whole concept in general. In some cases to do this is to agree with them. Personally I leave myself open to the concept of god but do not assign any one particular belief system to it.
It is very similar to going to a foreign country and handing someone an onion and an orange. Since they have never seen an onion or an orange their belief on which is which is based on what you tell them. Have them bite into the onion while you are claming it is an orange and their belief in what an orange is set, based on their taste experience and belief and trust in the person who gave it to them. They simply do not know better being in a sheltered environment that does not allow them to go out in the world and experience the real truth as it is. This is the key for the disfellowshipped tactic. Do not expose the people to alternative possibilities of what the truth is and you can control what they believe the truth to be. Keep those who have discovered the real truth away from those who have not and you win the game.
I suggest that if your friend really wants to love god then she should try and look into other definitions of who he is. All she knows is that the WTBTS has told her. By her experience with an abusive husband she might be open to this thought. If they let him not only get away with his controlling ways but also encourage it with the no questions asked head of the house hold woman in subjection crap then she might start to see the flaws and untruths in other aspects of their teaching. That little voice inside her head that is telling her that this and that are wrong is just her intelligence and reasoning ability telling her that what she has been told is right, is in truth, wrong. That little voice is not a pointy tailed little pearly gate drop out trying to corrupt her. If she can grasp just that one concept that it is her own intelligence that is helping her make these decisions and not Satan the invisible bad guy, she can then listen to her own wisdom and begin to examine and explore possibilities that will finally make her happy.
The JW's condemn an open mind be cause they know what it can lead to. They protect pedophiles for the same reason.
I wish her the best in her quest for happiness.
Take care
Dave
FreePeace

Hi Marilyn,
I went through a divorce while still a JDub and I can appreciate how difficult and confusing it can be--especially when one factors in all the religious "stuff."
I have since decided that there is no valid reason to remain in a relationship that is not healthy, or is otherwise abusive. I wrote the following Bill of Rights specifically for someone in an alcoholic relationship, but many of the points may apply in principle to your friend's situation.
----------------------------------
The Non-Alcoholic’s Bill of Rights
Empowered Recovery believes in each person’s human rights. In a codependent-alcoholic relationship, individual human rights are not respected, and this is the primary devastating factor to families dealing with alcoholism. Therefore, Empowered Recovery outlines a code of basic human rights applicable to the non-alcoholic.
You and your children have:
1. THE RIGHT TO a loving and secure relationship based on healthy mutual dependence;
2. THE RIGHT TO peace and harmony in your home;
3. THE RIGHT TO a stable, secure, and nurturing environment conducive to personal growth and self-discovery;
4. THE RIGHT TO a healthy self-concept, knowing you are worthy, valued, and loved;
5. THE RIGHT TO human dignity; to be respected and treated as an individual human being, and not be put down, demoralized, and dehumanized;
6. THE RIGHT TO not live a life of “always waiting for the other shoe to drop,” never knowing whether it will be a soft slipper or steel-toed work boot;
7. THE RIGHT TO a life free of the fear of emotional terrorism, physical abuse, and constant arguing;
8. THE RIGHT TO a life free of nightmares, day terrors, and insecurity;
9. THE RIGHT TO a life free of guilt and shame, and free from manipulation through guilt and shame;
10. THE RIGHT TO not be emotionally drained and “all used up” from the rigors of a codependent-alcoholic relationship;
11. THE RIGHT TO use any possible means (short of physical assault) to positively change your own circumstances;
12. THE RIGHT TO leave a physically abusive alcoholic relationship immediately and without advance notice to the alcoholic;
13. THE RIGHT TO leave any relationship that is not healthy and not actively improving;
14. THE RIGHT TO not live life on a roller coaster, going from one alcoholic crisis to another;
15. THE RIGHT TO go to work or school without dragging all the baggage of codependent-alcoholic dysfunction;
IN SHORT: A life free of codependence and alcoholism.
(Taken from http://www.empoweredrecovery.com )
FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS
Mulan

Freepeace: your post is likely the most helpful yet. I didn't say that her husband is an alcoholic, but HE IS!! Thank you for this list.
And, he is always throwing the "subjection" issue up to her, that she is not a submissive wife.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
Francois

I frankly don't believe that there is some magical or superior sequence of words that, upon delivery to this man, will make him change his mind.
I fully believe that he will continue this behavior as long as he receives feedback from his wife, as long as he gets the instantaneous gratification of hearing her response to his speaking.
Thus, it seems to me - having broken up with a few people in my life - that cutting off all communication is a much better idea than useless attempts to develop magical communication.
My two cents worth.
Francois
one

she does not want to be a jw
she does not want to go back with him
If she sure about it, why waste time talking
her children now is the delicate part, but they are grown anyway.
she may have to face the fact, not be able to talk to them as usual for a long time or maybe never again.
COMF

But she does NOT want to go back to him. Does anyone have a suggestion to help her?
Don't go back to him.
Please restrain yourself from posting stupid comments.
It isn't stupid. It's plain as day, but apparently she doesn't see it.
She wants suggestions on what to say to him when he says those comments to her, that will make him stop.
Why? Why is she even talking to the guy? Tell her this: Don't talk to him.
She doesn't have to defend her choices. She doesn't have to justify her desire to live in peace. She owes him nothing for a lifetime of abuse. He doesn't have to agree that she's right in order for her to be right. She has no need to speak to him, either on the phone or in person. It is not "being rude" to refuse to talk to him. Her time belongs to her. If he wants to waste it trying to foster guilt, then she can reclaim it simply by hanging up.
Easy money.
COMF
Mulan

This is an abused woman, who has been under the thumb of a tyrant. When he calls her, she finds herself "under his" influence again. She didn't want a magic word or phrase, just something to say back to him, to maybe make him think. Women who have been in abusive marriages are beaten down, and need help. They feel that they somehow deserve what is happening to them and feel responsible for it.
She isn't going back to him.
(edited to take out my over reacting to what COMF said)
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
peaceloveharmony

hey mulan, i think you should still send this to your friend. beaten down and battered women need to hear that they can say no and do things like set boundaries. i think she will benefit from all the comments so far in this thread.
i wish her luck
love
harmony
Most people think, Great God will come from the skies, Take away everything And make everybody feel high. But if you know what life is worth, You will look for yours on earth: And now you see the light, You stand up for your rights.~~Bob Marley
FreePeace

Hi Marilyn,
With all due respect and credit to you, what Comf said is actually the nuts-and-bolts of any abusive situation. Comf’s comments actually champion her cause. He is telling the absolute, truth from an unemotional point of view.
That being said however, it is usually very difficult for an abused person (especially a woman) to detach enough to see things clearly. This is understandable, because of the nature of abuse, the abused person usually has lost much of his/her self-esteem. Furthermore, as you indicated, the abused person is almost “addicted” to the abuser.
What Comf said was actually in defense of her human rights. Perhaps the tone could have been a touch kinder, but the essence is valid. Sometimes it takes a little “shock value” to bring us to our senses in such a confusing and emotionally draining situation.
The most important message your friend should take from Comf’s comments is that she is so valuable as a person that she should never concede to abuse from ANYONE. Furthermore, WHO she is and HER feelings are every bit as valid as anyone else’s.
Comf was not attacking her, he was simply calling it like it is. Please accept his comments in this context.
In actuality, there really is nothing your friend can say to her husband that will make one bit of difference. I know. I tried myself in vain with my ex-wife. Actually, my continuing efforts to “give her something to think about” were very codependent. I learned to stop trying to control another person.
In doing so, I learned 3 important lessons, which I call The THREE IMMUTABLE LAWS OF SURVIVING AN ALCOHOLIC RELATIONSHIP. You can substitute “abuser” for alcoholic if you wish:
1. You CANNOT control the alcoholic or his/her drinking.
2. If you want COMPLETE relief from an alcoholic relationship, you only have two possible alternatives:
The alcoholic recovers; or You leave.
3. You only have one decision to make: You can take care of the problem now, or suffer longer and STILL take care of the problem later... Either way, you WILL take care of the problem eventually, or die from the pain. Your choice.
Period. Case closed. ( http://www.empoweredrecovery.com/articles/3laws.htm )
I hope this helps somewhat, and I commend you for your efforts in helping your friend.
FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS
(Edited for clarity)

Divorce? Help please.

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