I'm pretty sure his wife would have gone into the KH to confront him (if I remember right, she did want to), but as she'd DAd a month before she wouldn't have gotten very far.
Show-down with elder at the kingdom hall
by Hobo Ken 116 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
slimboyfat
How would you have handled it, just out of interest?
I don't know all the details of the situation so I don't know how I would "handle it". I put quotes round that because it's a classic JW phrase. "Situations" need to be "handled". Which usually means they need to have a big discussion to see who is right and who is wrong according to the rules (from the Bible or the Watchtower index, take your pick) and what "action" needs to be taken. Why play that game?
"Slander" is another favourite JW word. Who else throws about the word "slander" so much as Jehovah's Witnesses outside of maybe journalists and politicians? Jehovah's Witnesses have worn that word out, and it seems to me you have not really broken free from the Witnesses' way of thinking if you need to frame the issue in those terms.
The way I see it Ann needs to decide whether she wants to associate with her daughter or whether she wants to do what the elders say. It sounds like she doesn't want to listen to the elders and shun her daughter or else why did she share that she was upset about the elders' visit. So that looks like a good sign. (Plus not answering calls from Witnesses apparently) Time would be better spent talking to Ann and encouraging her to do what she feels she wants to do. Elders are always going to try to get baptised Witnesses to follow the organisation's guidelines. I don't see why that should be surprising, or what the point of trying to get them to change is, never mind bringing "worship" of Jesus or 607 BCE into the discussion.
-
calico
That elder is a liar and a weasel! ( I apologize if I offeneded any weasels!)
They never admit to anything--my husband was never an elder but, he uses the same tactics with me.
-
passwordprotected
I don't know all the details of the situation so I don't know how I would "handle it". I put quotes round that because it's a classic JW phrase. "Situations" need to be "handled".
Classic. I'm sure I've heard of those terms/phrases in non-JW situations. Whoops. I said "situation"!
Jehovah's Witnesses have worn that word out, and it seems to me you have not really broken free from the Witnesses' way of thinking if you need to frame the issue in those terms.
Fair enough. How's your aunt, by the way?
-
passwordprotected
The way I see it Ann needs to decide whether she wants to associate with her daughter or whether she wants to do what the elders say.
I should add that Anne disassociated herself, too.
-
slimboyfat
That's good Anne chose her family over loyalty to the organisation. It did seem the elder was fighting a losing battle trying to get her to shun Lorraine. I wish them all the best. My aunt is doing okay, she's still pretty "strong in the truth", although she is taking a lot of cruises and holidays now that her husband is retired and she is missing quite a lot of meetings when they are away, so maybe she is not that strong after all. She still believes it though I reckon, even if she is taking it easy a bit.
People often leave the Witnesses and join a church because that's what they need for a while. It's like a transition comfort blanket. I won't call them cowards (as you have implied I am) but personally I am past the stage of needing that crutch to replace the comfort of Witness certaintly. Accepting the world for the uncertain and unforgiving place it is may not be easy, but it's better to be a "man" about it (to put it in terms you seem to relate to) and not seek another set of delusions in order to cope with the loss of Witness delusions.
-
besty
IKA's mum has DA'd? or am I getting it all mixed up?
-
judge rutherFRAUD
I have listened to the first 7 tapes of ken and his wife. And my hat is off to both of them, BIG TIME . they have lots of nerve and busted these elders over and over and over again and again. this is a must listen for any jw's wishing to leave the wts. my only problem with these tapes is was ken and wife were way too nice. i used to have these nice talks with elders, and let them direct these talks. I have learned to stop jw's in their tracks and not let them get a word in edge wise, and totally domonate the conversation from start to end. making the jw's beg for mercy for every false thing they say to the point of making them cry uncle. AGAIN I WANT TO THANK KEN AND WIFE FOR THEIR STRENGHT STANDING UP TO THESE SCUM. There is a lot to learn from these tapes. stop asking stupid questions on this site and learn from a REAL MAN KEN.
-
Mary
"Slander" is another favourite JW word. Who else throws about the word "slander" so much as Jehovah's Witnesses outside of maybe journalists and politicians? Jehovah's Witnesses have worn that word out, and it seems to me you have not really broken free from the Witnesses' way of thinking if you need to frame the issue in those terms.
On the contrary, I think it's a perfect way of using their own words and phrases against assholes like this elder. They have absolutely no problem whatsoever accusing everyone else of 'slander', but they sure as hell don't like it when they themselves are doing the very thing that they accuse others of.
Excellent tape! It shows that when cornered, Witnesses have absolutely not a clue what they're talking about, they don't like their words questioned and they'll move heaven and earth to get rid of someone who does have the balls to question them.
-
iknowall558
SLIMBOYFAT My mum and myself along with my sister got baptized on the same day 24yrs ago. That's how long he's known us. This elder sat and told us that he loved the both of us and yet he didn't mind, along with the other elders publicly humiliating us from the platform by means of talks, demonstrations and marking. I was gutted to think that everything we had given to them by way of time, friendship, and hospitality had all been forgotten and wiped out in minutes by means of the words flowing from their mouths on the platform. They demonized my husband and I. Who we were, and still are as people, had been wiped away and replaced with a different persona. They fed this to our many friends and family members, all sitting listening in the audience. I was there one of the nights when my brother in law gave a demonstration that mirrored word for word my conversation with him the day before in my kitchen. I was anxious and worried about what I saw in the org. and how the Bible contradicted some of their teachings and he encouraged me to talk about it so that he could try to help me. I was mortified when he humiliated me like that. He put my conversation on display and then had the cheek to tell me that the demonstration wasn't directed at me. Our reputation was in tatters because they chose to let people know (without mentioning our names of course) that we were apostate. If you listened to the previous podcasts of the 'shepherding visits' you will see the pressure put on myself to admit that i was reading and passing on 'apostate' literature. It was very uncomfortable for me to go through that and it's very uncomfortable to listen to. We were still officially JWs and I still had a 'respect' for them as people as well as the position they held as elders. I didn't want to lie.
All they were concerned about was getting answers to their questions so as to know how to proceed to sweep the filth out of their congregation. They weren't concerned about us, and how difficult and distressing it was to us and our children. They weren't interested. I realised then that the 'love' they claim to have is absolutely conditional, and how easily they can put you to the side. There were many, many tears on my part......and yet I know there would have been none on theirs.
The visit to my mum just reinforced all of the above. They didn't pay her any particular attention before. She was constantly missing from meetings due to ill health. The brother that used to phone her, as was mentioned, couldn't reach her sometimes because she was too ill to get out of bed. It's not that she didn't want to talk to anyone. But all of a sudden she was first on the list for a 'visit'. They were fulfilling their duty..........not to show love and concern, but to make sure she was following their rules. That's why she was so upset and why I was livid. My mum sent in a DA letter very soon after this visit , so his job of 'encouraging' her backfired.
JUDGERUTHERFRAUD Thanks for the support and encouragement.. I agree we were too nice and if I had the chance to do it again I would be more forthright and honest about what I really thought of them and their organization. My family was put through hell because of the way the elders dealt with us. It's still ongoing and I've had to make arrangements to place my 7yr old in another school so that he is not upset by the shunning of his mum and dad anymore by his schoolfriends and their mums and dads. But in saying that, I would need to be held back from confronting any of them now, as I couldn't be held responsible for my actions, and I would probably get arrested. I think they know this about me and I think they're a bit 'scared' of me because of that. They know I'm not afraid to speak my mind. I worry about my depth of bitterness at times, and although I try not to let it affect me, it does. I hate them just for that alone.