Newbie alert !!! Just wanted to say hello...

by sadiejive 43 Replies latest jw friends

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  waiting

  Howdy Sadie,

  Hope we haven't deluged you with suggestions - but you have TIME...please use it for you and your family's benefit. You and your husband's decisions will absolutely affect your whole family for the rest of their lives. No shit (and I mean that, btw) - you're in one serious situation that you can still walk away from as a free person.

  I think I came into the Watchtower looking for security and the family I didn't have. I have a long, violent background with incest with my father. I was promised New Mother, New Father, New Friends for the *false*, worldly, ones I would lose - and you will lose them for the most part - but you won't realize it's your doing, not theirs.

  Well, I did find some good friendships, as I probably would have in the world also. My approx. 9 yr. old daughter was sexually abused by a ministerial servant - and that could have happened to her in the world also. But the elders wouldn't even talk to him. Why not? There were not "two witnesses" to the act. How many times have YOU heard of two people witnessing a child being molested? Oh, btw, his grown daughter (df'd twice by then) wrote a long letter to elders (at the very same time as my calling them) detailing years of incest with him. His wife told the elders "If you come in my yard and say the word 'incest' - I'll sue you for slander."

  They backed off - and this man with 5 kids continued as a brother until his death years later......and they didn't even bother to ask him about his own daughter's and my daughter's sexual abuse accounts.

  I think that's what tore my heart the most.....I had been taught that we were all imperfect - but still in a Spiritual Paradise, with Armageddon "very shortly" coming. No one warned me that sexual molesters were covered over. Even confessed molesters are encouraged to go from door-to-door and on Bible Studies with families, just like your family. But NO ONE is told that they're inviting a confessed child molester into their living room, or to take their kids out in service....to teach them. This is a current practice of jw's.

  I was in a secret rage for years (because I was told that if I talked outloud about it, I could be brought up on charges of slander - and be df'd myself).....I HAD TRUSTED. I HAD BELIEVED. And I failed my daughter.

  As for doctrines.......they all sound quite plausible, especially if one is not terribly acquainted with science, world history, jw history, politics, biblical doctrine & hisory. As the vast majority of persons aren't. That's why we're all encouraging you to read - not just THEIR literature - but compare! Look up their quotes - they're writing department is famous for misquoting! I was amazed when I started comparing.......and ashamed it took me so long.

  Prisca's right.....don't get baptized! If you do - by the usa courts....you've agreed to all that they've told you - and not told you, and all the New Light Changes they'll continue to make. And they absolutely CAN take your family's affections away from you forever.

  Btw, perhaps you can make a really special day of xmas for your kids while on vacation? A movie, new toys, candy, whatever.....so they won't feel so left out.

  Take care and enjoy your vacation.

  waiting
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  Farkel

  Sadie,

  Your kids are 3 and 5? If you join the JW's, they will likely have the same childhood I had. Read this carefully, because this is what they are going to have to face:

  "Remember Jehovah in the Days of Your Youth"

  These words were the title of a Watchtower article I remember reading many years ago. As I recall, the sole purpose of the article was to convince young people to dedicate their younger years to full-time preaching for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  Many people who become JWs as adults, and later leave, have at least some "normal" remembrances of a "traditional" childhood. This is not true with kids unfortunate enough to be born into the "truth."

  Although I have tried to supress it, I do vividly remember the days of my youth. I was pretty much Witness all of my young life, and my entire childhood and most of my twenties were spent as one. I am 53 now.

  I would like to share now how I "remember the days of my youth."

  In first grade, children were required to stand and say the pledge of allegiance to the flag every day. I had to stand at attention like a soldier, and utter nothing. The children teased me, and asked me why. So did my teacher. I really couldn't explain why, except it was against my religion. I missed a lot of school in first grade because of the hassles over the flag salute.

  Worse than the flag salute issue, though, was the national anthem, which is played at every school-sporting event I can recall. Not standing and singing when everyone else does in a large crowd is the worst form of terror for child or adult. I was called a Communist and
  worse. Kids tried to pick fights with me over it, and worst of all, many of these events were mandatory at my schools. Once again, I missed a lot of school on the days these events were held.

  My worst experience, though, was in my senior year in High School. I was part of a travelling assembly, which was to entertain at another school. I played the piano and was the first performer, so I was asked to sit at the piano from the very start of the assembly. I had to sit just below the stage in front, which required me have to face the entire audience (around 2,500 students and teachers).

  Suddenly all lights in the auditorium went out and a huge glaring spotlight was pointing to the back of the auditorium on the school honor guard. These students marched with the U.S. flag to the front of the auditorium and within 2 feet of me while the spotlight followed. The entire school was asked to rise and say the pledge of allegiance. This happened with the flag between me and the student body,while a brilliant spotlight showered me and the flag in light. I stood at rigid attention while the rest of the kids had their hands one their hearts and said the pledge. It was one of the most frightful days of my life and one I will never forget.

  Every Christmas, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and all other major holidays were scheduled as some "special" field service day, so of course, I had to go. As a young child, I remember many Christmas mornings standing in the snow, knocking on doors, and seeing kids my age around the Christmas tree tearing open presents and screaming with joy, while I stood there in my pathetic little suit, carrying my pathetic little briefcase containing my pathetic little magazines waiting to give my pathetic little speech. It was pathetic.

  I never attended major or minor league sporting events as a kid or as an adult, because of the terror I had over the national anthem issue. I was never allowed to participate in school sports athletics, although I set several High School records in track in my gym class. Also, I could not take advantage of the resources offered by the YMCA.

  The How I Spent My Summer Vacation stories all school kids had to write were always centered around "vacation pioneering," because that is what I had to do. I could have used the same story 8 consecutive years in a row and the teachers would have been none the wiser.

  Nearly 30 Christmas seasons went by without me giving or receiving one single present. The same number of years went by, and I never was sung the Happy Birthday song, nor did I receive a solitary birthday present. I never attended all the birthday parties offered by acquaintances at school, either. I never saw a bag-full of candy on Halloween. Most Halloweens, my parents would turn the lights off, and the TV down, and we would sit silently while the hordes of little children knocked on our doors and shouted trick-or-treat. On other occasions, as part of my "ministerial training," I had to answer the door and explain to all the neighbor kids and their parents that we were Jehovah's Witnesses and didn't celebrate Halloween, and then try to stuff a Watchtower or Awake covering the subject into their bags.

  This Watchtower stuff about "Jehovah's Witnesses don't need holidays to be generous. They do it all year around," is a total bunch of crap from my personal exeriences. It never happened for me, and it never happened for any of my young Witness friends, either.

  Then, at age 24, I realized what I had suffered all through my youth for was a fraudulent LIE.

  Most of my youth was gone. And my youth was perverse. All for a LIE. So much of my youth was literally squandered being a slave for a moneymaking RACKET which fraudulently operates in the name of God.

  Ah, "the days of my youth," squandered in the service of "Jehovah." Yes, I remember them. I remember them well.

  (My detractors will say I'm "whining" again. Not true. Many ex-JWs who were raised in that faith will attest to the veracity of what I went through.)

  Do you really want your children to spend their youth like that? And listen very carefully to what those people say when they point out that getting "in" that religion is infinitely easier than getting "out" of it.

  Farkel

  "When in doubt, duck!"

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
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  sadiejive

  Hey. Wow...I just got back on (busy and crazy day w/the kids). DH is out of town with work and it has been HORRIBLE here...I'm going nuts!!

  Gosh, where do I begin...thank you all for your wonderful and heartfelt comments. And for sharing this info with me.

  UncleBruce:
  

  Being a JW means your children mustn't have contact with non witnesses including cousins and grandparents etc..

  I wasn't aware of that, but I did suspect it. Of course, while I'm studying their not going to just come out and say that this is something that is expected. But I sensed some uneasiness when I would question them about their relatives who were not witnesses. Thanks for the warning.

  LB, Princess, ISP, JBean, Mulan, OutnFree, Angharad: Thanks for sharing your stories and for your advice...and for your warm welcomes

  Prisca:
  

  Whatever you do, don't get baptised. Sure, study the religion and research as much as you can. But be aware that even those studying with you don't know the full history of their own faith. How many of them know about Beth Serim and the prophecies regarding 1925? How many know what the WTS really said about 1975?

  I have already told DH that baptism wasn't even an option as far as I am concerned. I can't do that. I just can't. Too many questions brewing in this ole brain of mine to make a commitment like that. The other things...the past of the WTS...I have spoken with these particular witnesses about it. They know all about it (miracle wheat, beth serim, and the numerous other prophecies that were made and were "covered up"). Not sure if I know whatcha meant by "What the WTS really said about 1975?

  Lilacs: I would definitely welcome ANYONE who would want to share ANYTHING with me. BUT I must ask DH and see what he says. Let me get back to ya. If he says no...then I'll figure something out

  Waiting: God, what can I say??? I hurt for you and your daughter. Our backgrounds sound a lot alike. Funny, but now that I've declared to my family that I am no longer celebrating holidays, it's like a Norman Rockwell painting around here. My mom poors out her heart, and my sister (with whom I never been close...long story) showed up here just today...crying. 12-21 is my b-day and she wanted me to know that she loved me and that she just COULDN'T not give me something. I AM confused. I hurt so badly that I am causing my family and (however unaware they are of it at their ages) my children such grief.

  The "incest" is something that I have just now (the past couple of days) been investigating, for lack of a better word. I went to www.silentlambs.com and it completely floored me. Not just that their were so many molestation stories (because, in all honesty, that could happen in any religious org.) but that it was COVERED UP. I thought of telling DH what I read and telling him to read it but for some reason he has it in his mind that I am wishy washy (and I am sometimes) and that I am "easily swayed". He takes very little of the info that I try to share with him seriously.

  Oh yeah, and we were planning to go shopping at the first of the year and buy the kids some gifts and wrap them up. Can't do that on vacation...we'll be accompanied by our JW friends ...not that DH would allow it anyway.

  Waiting, thank you so much for sharing your story with me. That can't be an easy thing to talk about. Thank you!!
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  sadiejive

  Farkel::

  I had to go. As a young child, I remember many Christmas mornings standing in the snow, knocking on doors, and seeing kids my age around the Christmas tree tearing open presents and screaming with joy, while I stood there in my pathetic little suit, carrying my pathetic little briefcase containing my pathetic little magazines waiting to give my pathetic little speech. It was pathetic....Nearly 30 Christmas seasons went by without me giving or receiving one single present. The same number of years went by, and I never was sung the Happy Birthday song, nor did I receive a solitary birthday present. I never attended all the birthday parties offered by acquaintances at school, either. I never saw a bag-full of candy on Halloween. Most Halloweens, my parents would turn the lights off, and the TV down, and we would sit silently while the hordes of little children knocked on our doors and shouted trick-or-treat. On other occasions, as part of my "ministerial training," I had to answer the door and explain to all the neighbor kids and their parents that we were Jehovah's Witnesses and didn't celebrate Halloween, and then try to stuff a Watchtower or Awake covering the subject into their bags.

  
  That literally made me cry. That is truly heartbreaking. I don't want to do that to my children. I have spoken with several of the kids in the local congregation and some of those who are now adults that were raised in "the truth" about how they felt about these times of year and they always said it really didn't bother them. Of course, they would say that...but, honestly, how could it not??? Going into other peoples houses with all the decor and gifts, etc. Feeling left out of EVERYTHING...not having any friends because they have to remain "separate from the world". Why, I've seen the eyes of the ten yr old daughter of the witnesses with whom we study when she has been in our house during Christmas seasons of the past. She loved it....I could see it and sense it. This is why I don't really want to do this with my children. This is why I haven't spoke up to my son's teacher when he would come home with halloween candy or talking about so and so's mom bringing cupcakes for the class because it was her son's b-day or when he got gifts from his teacher (which they kindly wrapped in plain gold paper and tried to go with just a "winter" theme JUST for my son's sake)...although we told his teacher at the beginning of the year that we don't do these things. Because how can I press and encourage something that I am not even sure about myself???

  I really don't know what to do. Maybe I should change my log on name to "majorly confused"...LOL. All I know is that I've got to figure and straighten this out before my kids get too much older.

  Thanks again to all of you!!!

  sadie
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  Billygoat

  Sadie,

  Welcome to the board! The advice here is certainly worthwhile and stuff I hope you keep in mind. I was raised in the WTS and have so many regrets. The biggest and best decision I made was when I was 19 and left. I haven't been back since - that was 11 years ago.

  Please stick around and learn and make new friends. There are a lot of people here that understand what you're going through and your doubts. There are reasons for your conscience doubting you, so please pay attention it. Looking forward to reading more of your story!

  Andi
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  sadiejive

  Thanks Andi!!
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  Pathofthorns

  First of all, I just want to welcome you and to say that the advise so far has been very good.

  I also wanted to say that life as a Witness isn't necessarily 'horrible'. For many of us who only knew life as a Witness, it was something that was just accepted and never questioned.

  This is the problem, that almost all Witnesses are unaware of many things regarding their history or the inner workings of the organization, since these things are not taught to newer ones and once baptized, these things are not open to critical discussion or debate.

  I respect anyone's right to choose to become a Witness. However, that decision should be made after having been informed of all the important facts surrounding their history and their claims to be led by God.

  Hopefully you can take some time to read a few websites and Ray Franz's books. Active Witnesses will tell you that these things are all "lies" even though they have never personally examined them or know what these "lies" are.

  You have the right to ask whatever questions you feel are important and recieve honest and straightforward answers. Ask yourself if the answers you get make sense. Look for evasive tactics, or replies like "why would you want to know that?" or "where did you hear that from?".

  Good luck,

  Path
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  YoYoMama

  sadiejive: I think you are doing the right thing studying the Bible. I understand your doubts and worries also. I am still a Witness and have grown up as one. I grew up as a Witness in a country that persecuted us for our beliefs. It was tough, but at the same time I had the priviledge of relying completely on Jehovah when the going got tough.

  As far as baptism, no one can make you do it or not do it. It has to come from your heart.

  It is excellent that you are investigating, it is always good to make an educated choice. This board is full of characters. Unfortunately some don't believe in a God, some don't believe in the Bible. Always investigate things you hear and read with your own bible and come to your own conclusions.
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  JBean

  Well... YoYo sounds pretty mellow today, however, I just want to point out that it's not JUST JW's that have the privilege of relying on Jehovah. That, if I'm not mistaken, is open to all humankind. No specifics as to what you call yourself (and what actions are demanded that you twist yourself into a pretzel to adhere to... ahem) are needed to rely on God and Christ.
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  sadiejive

  PathofThorns:: Thank you for the reference to Ray Franz. I will have to read that.

  YoYoMama. I try my best to reach my OWN conclusions when reading the bible but it becomes very difficult when every time I come across something that in some way doesn't "click" with what I'm being taught by the JWs, my hub always suggest that we ask them about it. I hate that...because even if *I* am not completely satisfied with the explanation they give, DH laps it up. Thanks for your advice

  sadie