by sadiejive 43 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Marilyn,
Thanks for your honesty. Um...is there anything else I should know? I'm trying to discuss this with my hub and keeps asking me, "well, what exactly is it that they do after you are baptised that they don't tell you about before?" And I don't know. Why did you leave??
Thanks again
sadie
Sadie,
Please heed many of the thoughtful responses here. I was a witness kid, and you know what? IT SUCKED!
David_10,
Welcome! So glad you posted
What jumped out at me on your post was talking about the difference between your daughters (raised JWs) and your sons (not raised as JWs).
I had not had contact with all of my JW extended family for nearly 20 years. I literally knew nothing of them. Last year a cousin located me and "the other side" (us worldy folk). When we were able to get together, I was stunned to learn of the depression and mental illness that affects so many of my JW cousins and their children. Those affected literally number in the dozens. One cousin who is bipolar had been told for YEARS to pray it away. She didn't receive appropriate help for many years.
I remember my Mother (who has been out over 30 years) and I looking at each other, because we had been so devastated by all the years of shunning, and retorting to each other, "and all this time, WE were suppose to be the troubled ones!". Granted, I had many challenges growing up (not JW related) and had to overcome some emotional issues myself as an adult, I am just grateful my WHOLE youth was not spent being a JW.
Andee
Hi Sadie, We left because my husband, who had been an elder for 25 years, had been researching some of the doctrines. He conducted the Watchtower Study on Sundays, for years, and many, many, many things he taught, he simply couldn't back up in scripture. There would be a scripture referenced in a paragraph, and then the phrase "....and so we can see........that........." whatever it was, but it didn't prove what they said it did. The controls they were supposed to put on the people's lives in the congregations, seemed wrong to him. They were beginning to monitor what you could think about, even. No one is allowed to question the teachings of the society.
But, his research took him to conclusions that the chronology of the Watchtower Society was extremely flawed, and outright wrong. He read Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom, both by Raymond Franz, and a book by Carl Olaf Johnsson about the chronology. Those books all reveal the corruption and lack of integrity by that organization, and that they are in a self-preservation mode, mainly.
Their policy on dealing with child molesters is another issue that bothered him, but that isn't really one of the reasons he quit being an elder. Looking back on it, he says they are not trained, and not educated to deal with the life and death decisions they are called upon to make. They are simply men, and some of them are extremely nice, but very unlettered men. One elder was nearly illiterate, but nice. My husband had to deal with several cases of molestation in our congregation, and was left with a bad feeling about all of them. No one could go to the police. It was "protect the organization at all costs".
There is so much more.
I had a cousin, who died in September, but she quit going to the Kingdom Hall, because she learned all that we had learned. They disfellowshipped her for giving her mother some papers to read that called the teachings of the organization into serious question. They disfellowshipped her for that. And she found out a month later that she had breast cancer, and died within two years, without the support of her lifelong friends, who were required to shun her!!
It is a bad place to be. I hope you don't go any further with this group. You see, the emporer really does have NO CLOTHES!! I'm sure you know what I mean.
Don't ignore those nagging doubts.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
Hello Sadie,
It's not going to be anything drastically different after you are baptised. It's like you put the wet rope around yourself....and as it dries.....it shrinks and tightens - ever so quietly.
Your kids want to play Little League baseball? No. Go see Harry Potter movie? No. Want to play intermural (sp?) sports? No. Sit in classroom while others kids have parties? No. Join in those parties? NO!!! Join in class politics? No. Play football? No. Girls go to slumber party? No. There are a host of other "No's." And lord, the grey areas will drive you nuts. "should I let them......." It's endless, as are the explanations to the kids.
"Ok, you can play in band, but can't play during National Anthem." But mom! I can't go walking off the stage! Can I pretend to play? "No, people will think you're still playing. You can sit there with horn on your lap." (This conversation actually took place with my son. - And I was stupid enough to watch to make sure he did "just so.")
"Sister.......
You're dress is too revealing.
Too tight.
Too loose.
Too long.
Too short.
Slit too high.
Heels to high.
Not wearing hose.
Wearing too much jewelry.
Wearing too ethnic style prints.
Wearing too brightly colored clothes.
Hair style too ethnic or too worldly.
Make up not appropriate.
Sitting next to male not married to.
Crossing legs in front row.
Going too many times to the restroom.
Allowing your children to go to the restroom.
Wearing jangling jewelry.
Whispering during meeting.
Not enough Field Time turned in.
Not answering properly during meeting.
No questions allowed during meetings.
Do not ask questions from any brother except your own husband at home.
Cannot correct any baptised brother - no matter age, no matter what stupid, incorrect, comment he made. He's a Man.
Children are to sit entire meeting.
No crayons, no pencils, no drawing, no toys, no moving, no sleeping.
This is off the top of my head ---- just the signals you'll learn to do during the meetings. Lord, then there's Field Service, Home Life, School, Doctors, Jobs, sex with your husband, extended family gatherings .......and it's primarily "No". But then it's too late.
And the wonderful "New brothers & sisters, mothers & fathers?" You'll make friends, just like you would in the world. The difference? If you don't produce time and come to meetings.....you'll have no association - as you'll be labeled as "weak" "unspiritual" "bad association". Your children will be labeled so that other jw kids won't invite them to play. And you should never let your kids play with worldly kids.
Btw, have you read some of the sexual threads on this forum? Does your husband realize that if he wants to be a good brother and "reach out" towards being a ministerial servant, he and you will never engage in oral sex? Don't even consider anal sex. Never masturbate? Never use any form of pornography? Of course, please don't feel it's necessary to answer - but that little tidbit might not have come up for conversation during your "bible study."
Your husband may be a fine man. But if you get baptized, and he dies, divorces you, runs away, etc., - you will only be allowed to "marry in the lord" - which means another jw man. One elder commented during the WT study about wife abuse...."but that doesn't mean if he justs slaps her - the elders don't want to get involved in something so slight." Of course, he didn't mention that there's a "closed handed slap" which some men use.
But it's a quiet cancer of the heart......and jw's are taught that they're the "happiest people in the world." And they only whisper to each other their pain and sadness.
Think about all the ways you and your children will be impacted by your decision. Think.
waiting
ps Sorry for the long post.
