Newbie alert !!! Just wanted to say hello...

by sadiejive 43 Replies latest jw friends

sadiejive

That is true JBean. Jesus came for EVERYONE..not just the Jews, or for this person or that...but for EVERYONE. Making an open relationship with his father, Jehovah God, possible for ALL of mankind. Thank you for reminding us
sadie
david_10

Hello,Everyone. I've been hanging around the discussion board for several months and greatly enjoy all the posting and keeping up with the latest threads. I've never registered because I felt that everything that could be said was being covered well enough without my meager contributions. After all this time,I feel that I know everyone on the board pretty good-----certainly a lot better than everyone knows me.
But I'll save my more formal introductions for another occasion. The reason for signing up now after all this time is that I just read Sadiejive's post and it really breaks my heart. I don't think that I can add anything to what's already been posted,but I just want to tell you,Sadie,that everything written by prisca,outnfree, freepeace,waiting,LB,princess and many others is the truth and not exaggerated at all. I think that you should especially go back and carefully consider what Farkel wrote about what it's like to grow up in the "truth." Believe me,he is not "whining",as he put it. I'm amazed at how closely his life experiences parallel my own. At 49,I'm only slightly younger than he is,and even down to the piano playing,we seem to have a lot in common. I was a third generation witness,and so I accepted all my travails as a normal part of growing up and by the time I reached High School,I accepted everything as "suffering for righteousness sake",which is what witnesses do a lot of. I'll tell you you this,though: I learned how to fight. Through elementary school and middle school especially,it was a rare day that I was not attacked and forced to defend myself. I was the first witness to go through the school system in this area in many years,so I absorbed a lot of the punishment that my 2 younger brothers and other witness kids did not have to endure;but you can be sure,Sadie,that your kids will have plenty of trouble,even if it never turns violent. I was (am) blessed with 4 kids of my own----2 girls that came close together,and then after several years,my wife and I had 2 boys real close together. The girls were raised "in the truth." By the time the boys came along,we had had stopped associating and they never were around it,at least very little. Now here's what's interesting: The girls have a lot of emotional problems and don't fit in well with others in general.Both have to take anti-depressants to get by. But those boys!! They love being alive! Both are in high school and they aren't perfect,mind you,but they have dreams and goals and see nothing standing in their way. They are enjoying their lives and look forward to facing every day. Now I have to ask myself: "Why is there so much difference between the girls and the boys?" The only logical explanation is that one set of kids was raised "in the truth." The other set wasn't. I discussed this with my mother and she thought for a long time that that it was simply a matter of boys being different from girls. Maybe,but I don't think so. Not even my mother thinks that anymore. Both of my parents,by the way,have left the organization in the past year after more than 50 years of faithful service. This has been due largely to many negative experiences and reading the posts that I've printed out for them from this board. I also gave them "Crises of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom." I highly recommend both of these books if you really want to know beforehand what you're getting into.
Anyway,Sadie,this has gone on long enough,so I'll end it. I hope that this thread hasn't run out of steam yet and that you'll get my somewhat opinionated viewpoint;but,it is a viewpoint tempered by long experience. And I just want to emphasize what has already been brought out:be very sure that you know what you're doing,because you can't take it back once you're baptized. Don't let your husband or your study conductor or anyone make the decision for you. Make sure that you and you alone want this for you and your kids lives. Good luck.
David
JBean

Welcome to posting, David! Your story (of which I hope we hear more of) as well as Sadie's touched my heart. You are very lucky however, to have your immediate family "out" along with you. I'm still hoping... see you soon! Jbean
Utopian Reformist

Dearest SADIEJIVE:
Welcome! I am sure all of us happy and proud that you are an independent thinker! Life is short and rough and full of many choices, therefore don't rush into anything.
FARKEL's story belongs to thousands of JW children around the world. It may sound unbelievable to allow that much control over your own family, but it's true and it happens every day. If WACO, HEAVEN'S GATE, PEOPLE'S TEMPLE could happen, then anything is possible with religion.
Your husband is like many "new" men who begin their usual so-called "thoecratic" careers with the witnesses. He is impressed by their knowledge, their organized way of doing everything, their cleanliness, their authority. At first, all of these things seem so harmless and simple and safe in a world filled with bad news, however, pay careful and close attention to the individual demeanor and behavior of the people in your congregation. You will begin to subtly notice some very unusual things.
Watch how the "spiritual men" quietly organize and control all of the meeting programs. Watch how people answer questions directly from witness books, even when they paraphrase they only mimmick the material in the literature. See if anyone ever dares ask a question or make a comment that doesn't agree with the scripted program. And, if someone has that brand of courage, see if they are ever allowed to comment again and watch how they are treated by everyone, if they come back.
As you attend meetings and your weekly study, quietly notice the expressions and gestures of certain people, then ask yourself are they really bubbling with joy? Do they really look so happy?
When they are out in service, monitor their actions when they meet householders, and then decide for yourself whether or not witnesses have multiple personalities. Why does the manner of speech and words change inside and outside of the hall? When you visit their homes look around and see if things look so normal and well adjusted.
When you are studying with the couple or sisters, watch their expressions when you ask certain provoking questions and see if meet hesitation, secrecy, indifference and possibly opposition.
Look, these are not the worst people in the world, but like any organization made up of people, it contains flaws. In this case, the flaws are in the policies and teachings of the organization itself.
Ask yourself, does it is really sound loving or christian to impose rules and restrictions over people? If the bible is what you believe, aren't there already enough principles and guidelines in there to follow?
Is it really loving to control people and their behavior? Even if you could, would that behavior be voluntary or imposed? Is that the obedience and freedom that Jesus promised?
After 17 years and too many problems, I have numerous stories of my own which are similar, but all I can say, use your feminine intuition and be skeptical. Use the same research and skepticism that would when buying products or making major purchases and decisions.
After all, if its really the truth, it isn't going anywhere, right? So what's the hurry?
Your new friend!
AMICUS NOVO!
waiting

WELCOME DAVID!
I'm glad you made us aware of you - especially to help another new person. Thank you.
Your family seems to be doing well, all-in-all. Congratulations.
Howdy UR
Your husband is like many "new" men who begin their usual so-called "thoecratic" careers with the witnesses. He is impressed by their knowledge, their organized way of doing everything, their cleanliness, their authority.
"Their authority." To some men....no big deal because they're secure in their own selves. To other men? Having the Final Authority over a woman, his children, his 'castle' can be quite a turn on, particularily if he's a janitor. I lived with a dunce like that - the jw's (and a couple of other groups/religions) are an easy way to get instantanious respect and authority. And some men tend to abuse it, physically and emotionally.
LISTEN UP, SADIE! Utopian Reformist has hit on a big issue hidden by jw's. The "submission" of the woman to the man. Not terribly bad is done ok............but there are women here whose jw's husbands beat them & their kids, etc. - and again, it is for the most part, covered over by the WTBTS.
I believe Thinker's Wife is one of those (now x) wives. Well worth your chatting with her.
Find your OWN answers.....from all different sources - compare.
waiting
Utopian Reformist

Gratia Supremo!
LDH

David, Welcome!
Sadie, as someone once said, You don't know the right questions to ask until it's too late to ask them.
People here are trying to give you a heads up. It's up to you whether or not to listen but you won't be able to say [i]you were never warned.[i/]
Unlike a lot of people on this board, myself included, who were raised JW. We had no choice. You do. Choose wisely, as they say in the Indiana Jones movie.
Lisa
sadiejive

Hello. It is nice to see so many concerned and helpful folks around here. Thank you all.
David:: Thank you for making yourself known for me. I am guilty of hanging about here and not registering but just reading comments and such, as well. So, I like yourself feel like I know many who haven't a clue as to who I am. I am sorry for the challenges you (and many others here) faced growing up. A point my hub tries to make with me is that...he says (about the kids) "they have to take a stand on something...and kids will ALWAYS make fun of one another, for some reason or another. At least this is nobel...It is for Jehovah." Which is fine and dandy if this is REALLY what Jehovah wants us to do as christians. But is it?? I start reading scriptures such as those found in Romans 14 and Colossian 2 and I think...maybe this isn't necessary. Why would I want to make my kids make a stand for something that isn't even REQUIRED of us...you know?? Why would I unnecessarily put them through that heartache? Won't they already have enough problems to deal with, without me adding one more to the list?? Do you see where I am coming from?? I think my husband thinks I'm just trying to find a reason to be able to celebrate again...and maybe I am. But I don't think so. I brought these scriptures to the attention of our study partners (months ago) and they explained them by saying that these scriptures only apply to the sabbath. But can I see where the application could go so much farther than that. Maybe they are seeing what they want to see...and I am seeing what I want to see. Anyway, thank you so much for revealing yourself and for sharing yourself with us.
Hey JBean:: Good to see you again!!
Utopian Reformist:: Thank you for commending me on my "quest" for knowledge and understanding. I, like my husband, was attracted to the WTS because of "their knowledge, their organized way of doing everything, their cleanliness, their authority"...and the way they seem to be doing all of the things that the bible tells us to do. Things that other churches do not do. The field ministry really impressed me and the wealth of publications to aide their congregations in learning about the bible and the different prophecies...and also the breakdown of individual books of the bible such as the Daniel book and the Isaiah book. I came from a pentecostal background. Lots of hollering, not much educating...LOL. So, this is one of the reasons why they have appealed to me and my hub. The backbone scriptures always used by our study partners is "you know a tree by it's fruit", "you'll know them by the love among them". When I found out the info about the NGO and read into silentlambs.org...I was shocked; hardly fitting of an organization who claims to "have love among them". And what about knowing a tree by it's fruit??? They cover up abuse, molestation, and lie and hypocritically join up with the UN through the NGO without the knowledge of it's members...and then lie about that too. Some fruit!!! Not to mention the fact that, although I agree with a lot of their basic doctrine, I don't agree with their "rule making" on the "gray" things. The things that aren't in black in white...the things that, honestly, should be left up to individual conscience. These are the primary reasons I am seriously "rethinking" my involvement with the JWs.
Hi Waiting::
Not terribly bad is done ok............but there are women here whose jw's husbands beat them & their kids, etc. - and again, it is for the most part, covered over by the WTBTS.

I don't really have a problem with submission. My dh is a swell guy. He is good and doesn't have a violent bone in his body. I trust him completely. But I could see where some could really use this to their advantage. It is sad that it happens. I know it happens in all religions...but how many religions go through the trouble of covering it up and shutting the mouths of the victims by threats and manipulation in order to protect the reputation of their organization???
Lisa:: Thanks for the advice. I know that I am fortunate that I have a choice. I'm sorry for all of you that never had that luxury. I am here because I want to make a sound and informed choice. And I LOVE Indiana Jones . Thanks again!!
ONE MORE THING:::
I have a question for you all. Many have said that I won't know what it's all really like until after I am baptised...could you let me in on it??? What happens after you are baptised?? What is it that they don't tell while you study?? Since the chances of me getting baptised are slim to none...please enlighten me. I jokingly told my hub to get baptised just to see...relax...it was a joke . I'm just curious. I have been over a lot of the things that have been mentioned here with these people (the JWs). Things such as:
Q:Can I ever disagree with the WTS once inside?
Their answer: Yes.
Q: If I do disagree am I free to voice that opinion to the elders without reprimand??
Their answer: Yes. Exception: Cannot spread my beliefs into the ministry...must keep teaching what the "faithful and discreet slave" teaches and leave my own "opinions" out of it.
Q: Are you allowed to speak to "unsaved" relatives or are you required to disassociate yourself with them?
Their answer: You are allowed to associate with relatives.
They seem truthful in their responses. On second thought, perhaps I should start a separate thread for this. Thank you all for all of your stories and advice. You just don't know how much you guys have and are really helping me. Thank you all so much.
Sorry so long...
Sadie
Mulan

HI Sadie. I have to comment on these questions:
Q:Can I ever disagree with the WTS once inside?
Their answer: Yes.
Not true. They probably don't know that you can't do that. You cannot disagree without strong repurcussions.
Q: If I do disagree am I free to voice that opinion to the elders without reprimand??
Their answer: Yes. Exception: Cannot spread my beliefs into the ministry...must keep teaching what the "faithful and discreet slave" teaches and leave my own "opinions" out of it.
Probably pretty much true. The elders would be the only ones you could talk to about it, but they would "grill" you about why you are asking.
Q: Are you allowed to speak to "unsaved" relatives or are you required to disassociate yourself with them?
Their answer: You are allowed to associate with relatives.
You are allowed to associate with non believing relatives, but it is STRONGLY discouraged. Definitely no holiday times with them. They are considered "worldly" and "bad association"
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
LDH

RE: Harboring "private thoughts" maybe Sadie should read the following link:
* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11974&site=3#146413
It's not allowed Sadie. Period.
Harumpf. Newbies.

Newbie alert !!! Just wanted to say hello...

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