Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Vinny

  You see, these are the very kinds of things that give religion a bad rap.

  There are arguments (among all Christian faiths and individual Christians against other christians all over the world) about these kinds of things (trinity, holy spirit, born again, rapture, tithing, sin, heaven, hell) and much more.

  It turns people OFF.

  And then you have all the 1.4 Billion Muslims that will be destroyed if they do not become Christian.

  Only the Muslims think that if all the Christians do not become Muslim, then they will be destroyed.

  And then we have the Mormons, who claim they alone are the true church. (Trust me, I have the emails and spoken to many).

  But then we have the Jews thinking they are still God's chosen people today.

  And then we have Jehovah's Witnesses who think all of the above; Muslims, Mormons, Jews and even other Christians along with Buddhists, Hindus and more are all going to get THE AXE. And only they get to make it.

  You see folks this is exactly why many people say forget religion.

  I understand.

  Vinny
• 

  Vinny

  So Chalam, are you changing up your story or not? You said if one is born again, even though they believe Jesus is not equal to the Father, that they get life.

  Now above, you seem to be singing a new tune.

  What's the real deal here?

  All this bickering stuff does is make religion look pretty sorry.

  Vinny
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Vinny,

  Are you just on a wind up?! I made it clear that I though you were asking the wrong question. You persisted in me answering it. So I answered it incorporating the right question. I think I am done with questions. If you are not clear then here it is again, Jesus' words, decide if you believe Him and if so get to know what He is talking about.

  John 3:3 (New International Version)

  3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

  Also this

  John 14:6 (New International Version)

  6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

  OK back to the video and the subject of the Trinity. If you think it is a waste of time then that's fine, let us while away the hours discussing it :)

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Vinny

  This is why trinity threads are boring waste of time. Nothing gets accomplished. Christians judge other christians on just what exact role Jesus has and all think they are right.

  Amazing nonsense.

  Trinity threads seem to have the same people on them every time.

  You see Chalam, if you think non-trinitarians are all going to be destroyed (even if they are sincere, loyal, dedicated worshipers of God and followers of Jesus), then this is the kind of nonsense that sours people on religion in general. Christians judging and condemning other Christians for what? A slight misunderstanding of what exact role each has?

  On the other hand If you think that non-trinitarian sincere worshipers of God and followers of Jesus will get life (as you stated) then why waste all this time on trinity nonsense?

  I call that a lose lose deal whichever way you go.

  And what's funny here is you have chosen both directions in your replies. Just read.

  And my replies on both of your flip flopping answers stand.

  Anyway, it's late and I'm done with this one.

  Trinity is a true waste of time and why most folks here rarely bother.

  Now carry on you Christian Trinity fighters! Hey, maybe one of you can win a point tomorrow.

  Over and OUT!

  Vinny
• 

  stronglogos

  I'm begining to doubt now that these are real Jehovah's witnesses they are feeding him his lines he has allsorts of publications at hand for this supposedly on the spot trinitarian discusion and OLD Jw publications too. reniaa (NICE TRY IN TRYING TO BAIL THEM OUT HOW CAN YOU SAY SUCH A THING WHEN YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE? THINK ABOUT IT? THERE REAL BELIEVE ME I KNOW!)
• 

  reniaa

  hi Vinny

  why is the trinity so important Chalam answered this did you realise..

  WHICH GOD DO WE WORSHIP?

  Jehovah's witnesses worship Jehovah as God!

  trinitarians worship Jesus as God!

  trinitarians will argue this point but when you have invented a whole unbiblical doctrine to allow you to worship the son instead of the Father and put a cross representing the son on all your altars I will stand by what I say.

  How important is it that we worship the true God?

  Exodus 34:14
  Do not worship any other god, for Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

  Matthew 4:8-10 (New International Version)

  8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

  10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship YHWH your God, and serve him only.' [ a ] "

  John 4:23 (New International Version)

  23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

  Jesus owns words show us how the true worshipers will be recognised?

  Does he say will they worship Jesus the son? NO! they will worship the Father does he even say 'AND the son'? NO! Does he say God so trinitarians could say it included both? NO!

  How important is worshiping the true God? the bible made it a commandment and Jesus also gave his backing to that commandment.

  You and chalam think armageddon is a just a gentle change-over of governments have you read revelation 16?

  Revelation 16:1 (New International Version)

  Revelation 16

  1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth."

  Revelation 16:16-21 (New International Version)

  16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

  17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

  this doesn not paint an easy picture it's heavily symbolic language but the dire warning of it shows it will be terrible for man who will 'curse god' because of it's terribleness.

  but if you want more comfirmation how about Jesus's own words....

  Luke 17:26-37 (New International Version)

  26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

  28 "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

  30 "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot's wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left." [ a ]

  37 "Where, Lord?" they asked.
  He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.

  Is Jesus painting a pretty picture here? OR is he showing it will be a flood type event?

  The Jehovah's witnesses did not put these scriptures in the bible but we paid heed to the warning and do not take the warning lightly? Do you?

  reniaa
• 

  reniaa

  hi stronglogos

  If they are real they have to learn some more of the deeper topics among our faith, I admit once into his flow bibliejim used a few tricks keep them wrong-footed but his speculations are easily refuted biblically.

  Reniaa
• 

  Chalam

  Hi reniaa,

  Welcome back :)

  WHICH GOD DO WE WORSHIP?

  Jehovah's witnesses worship Jehovah as God!

  trinitarians worship Jesus as God!

  Yes well put, I agree. In fact, I can worship the Father and The Son at the same time because I Jesus and the Father are one! John 10:30

  Interesting how JWs used to worship Jesus but now they don't.

  Have a read of your bible carefully-notice how the Lamb (Jesus) is at the "centre of the throne".

  Revelation 5:6 Revelation 7:17

  Looks like a great place to be worshipped.

  Yes, He is "My Lord and My God" and I worship Him. Check your Greek for worship worship and cross references with you own NWT. It used to read worship for every time. Now every proskuneo regarding Jesus they changed to obeisance. Can you tell me a reason for doing that save the WT change in doctrine?

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Yizuman

  reniaa,

  It's good to know that you agree that God is not limited and you're right He does limit himself, up to a degree.

  But what is the problem with God being 3 places at once? Or for the matter, being a million places at once? Isn't God the greatest multitasker in the universe?

  Can't God engage a million different topics with a million people all at the same time?

  Yiz
• 

  Tuesday

  I'm begining to doubt now that these are real Jehovah's witnesses they are feeding him his lines he has allsorts of publications at hand for this supposedly on the spot trinitarian discusion and OLD Jw publications too. reniaa (NICE TRY IN TRYING TO BAIL THEM OUT HOW CAN YOU SAY SUCH A THING WHEN YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE? THINK ABOUT IT? THERE REAL BELIEVE ME I KNOW!)

  Again that was just an older translation of the bible from the JWs. He had three different bibles there, it looked like the NWT, Interlinear and the large one just seemed like his personal copy with notes in it. This was a planned sit down, I don't think it's unreasonable he would've prepared a few bibles to make his points before the study.

  If they are real they have to learn some more of the deeper topics among our faith, I admit once into his flow bibliejim used a few tricks keep them wrong-footed but his speculations are easily refuted biblically.

  I wouldn't say deeper, you mean he needs to know how to play bible ping-pong better. Reniaa, let me introduce you to the majority of JWs nowadays, it is not the fire and brimstone, know the bible like that back of your hand witness from the 70's or 80's. The elders in my former congregation wouldn't have done a better job.