Isaac, that's exactly where I'm at. I know if it hadn't been for all that I don't like about the org I wouldn't have come to know the Bible as well as I do. But, now I know what it says, I don't need them any more and they've become an impediment to me and my conscience and spiritual growth.
What would it take for you to conclude that the WBTS is not God's channel?
by Mickey mouse 87 Replies latest jw friends
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sammielee24
Individual men and women living in such a way that they try as good as they can to imitate Jesus's ways, trying to live as Christians, I see around me, and that they can do independently of any organization
You cannot separate being a JW from the WTS because the WTS is the God you believe in. Your baptism links you to the organization NOT God and so your baptism holds you up in agreement that the WTS is speaking for God/is your God here on earth. If you really believed that you and any other JW could live as Christians, imitating Jesus, then why do so many stay inside because they are fearful of being cut off from their family and friends if they leave? Is that good independent Christ like behavior? Did Jesus say to shun your family, to cast out your children? Or did the WTS instruct you to do that? Why is it that when we talk about the blood issue on another thread - someone said that they let a child die for lack of a blood transfusion but they didn't really want to do it because they loved their child - why were they willing to follow that directive which was never given by Jesus but was a directive from interpretation of a few bible passages put in your face for you to follow by the WTS, not the real God, but your God. Ditto disfellowshipping and shunning. Those are not actions inspired by Jesus nor are they Christ like - they are directives for action presented to you by the WTS on behalf of God.
If one were to believe that the society was filled with just kind, caring people and good Christians, then we would also have to believe that they embrace those who have fallen away instead of judging and punishing them. We would have to believe that those kind caring Christians would not lie but they do under the guise of theocratic warfare. We would have to believe that those kind caring people, those loving Christians would show that love by not excluding people and labelling them as bad association or worldly and instead would welcome all to worship with glory instead of prejudice. sammieswife.
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isaacaustin
yes gubberningbody, you are doing well in your journey. I think focusing on the grace of Jesus, building our faith in that...coupled with study of the Bible with a clear mind will win out in bringing us to truth.
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The Almighty Homer
Good information folks , as myself as well as many others have realized over time when your a Jehovah Witness your serving the Watchtower's will and purpose
and not necessarily god's, in the vein of true spirituality. Thats the reason many actually left including myself.
Since the WTS. was created off from a business inspiration , what other direction could it have actually gone and headed to.
Combining the preaching work and business was bound to create corruption and it did !
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sammielee24
I noticed the question assumed I followed wtbs, which I don't!
Well, we finally got the answer - you aren't a JW at all. If you were, you could not say that you don't follow the WTS since the WTS = the GB = the faithful and discreet slave = Gods voice = closest thing you get to God.
Anyone who tries to say that they are a JW but who doesn't follow the WTS is a sham and a poser. Anyone who sits here and defends the teachings of the WTS but then tries to say they are a non believing WTS/JW is not a JW. All of your advice to others here on the board as an apologist for the WTS/JW organization should I suppose be considered just play. If in fact you do attend a Kingdom Hall which is where a good JW goes to worship, I suggest that you have a conversation with any Elder there so that you can clear up your confusion. I would be blunt and tell them that you don't follow the WTS and believe that you don't have to in order to be a good JW because last I heard, the criteria for not being disfellowshipped was actually saying that you believe the WTBTS is God's channel. You ain't believing in God if you ain't believing in the WTS. Of course you already know that you will be disfellowshipped if you do say you don't believe the WTS, which is the same thing as not following it, so I have no doubt that you will never go down that path. Which brings us to lies and truths doesn't it? A practicing JW who doesn't follow/believe in the WTS is living a lie and in doing so, if one is recruiting people into the same organization that represents all JW's, then that person is also destroying the lives of innocent people with those lies.
Everyone knows that when a disfellowshipped person tells a JW that they do not lose their faith in God when they are disfellowshipped, a JW doesn't believe them. That's because the JW mindset is linked directly to the WTS teachings which tell you that without them, you have no faith.
sammieswife.
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besty
I think the thread has been useful to highlight the difficulty loyal JW's have in diferrentiating between the WTBTS and their relationship with Jehovah.
The two are interchangeable and indistinguishable for many.
But when you push the WTBTS loyalty button they will frequently respond affirming their loyalty to Jehovah, not Brooklyn.
If you are DF/DA and being shunned by relatives, or it seems likely you might try this:
Q - Why are you shunning me?
A - Because the Bible shows that when someone sins unrepentendly that is what loyal Christians must do.
Q - And does that sit well with your conscience, really, when you look deep into your heart, does shunning family come naturally to you?
A - No it's a test of loyalty to Jehovah and knowing that it's in the best interest of the sinner helps
Q - So if Brooklyn ever relaxed their viewpoint on this and used scriptures to support a more loving merciful approach would you accept that?
A - <they can only really answer yes, but watch for weaselling as the realization of you next question starts to sink in>
Q - So the Watchtower interpretation controls whether you shun me or not?
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gubberningbody
Sammie, there are those who would suggest that the name JW is a protected trademark and those who submit that both terms existed in the public domain long before 1879. Perhaps a person would need make some clarification as to what those terms meant to them if they felt that others were wanting clarification, but since quick and easy mindless classifications are often some of the very things which have driven some away from the Borg, it seems a bit ironic that there would be some that after having ostensibly abandoned that path for themselves then go on and demand that others stay on that path in a similar fashion.
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TheOldHippie
............is the strange thing that a whole range of people here tell me what I believe, what I have to believe, and also have the liberty of stating that if a person does not 100 % believe what THEY tell one has to believe - then such a person is not a "real" JW!
Now, the whole range of critisism centres around the fact that WBTS in detail decides what a person has to believe, think, do etc., and it follows that a JW is but a puppet of the random choices or decisions of the GB and WBTS.
Then some people emerge, who state that they do not feel that is how their reality is; they tell they try to follow God and Jesus, not men, and that they are capable of doing dome thinking for themselves.
Oh no! state the critics - it just ain't so! You are not a REAL JW! WE know what you believe, how you must act, think etc. - and how you state that your feelings about this is - simply is not true! WE know better than you how you feel about these matters! You lie, you CANNOT feel like that, because you are a JW! And if you feel like that, you are NOT a JW!
In short, we know that either you are a liar, or you are misinformed, or you are plain stupid, or you do not know the REAL truth about the JW / WBTS, or you don't know yourself - because WE know you and your daily life better than you do.
Strange. Very strange. Surprising. Annoying. And it shows that a meaningful discussion 99 % certain is not possible, because these other people KEEP TELLING ME WHAT I REALLY MEAN, although I mean otherwise. It is SO annoying to be told what I believe, when I in fact know that I do NOT believe what I am told that I believe.
Annoying. And surprising that stereotypes like this exist on a board that per se should be non-stereotypic.
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sir82
50 something million people disappears from the face of the earth
Realize this is off topic, but just can't resist...
Why 50 million? Aren't there around 1 billion Christians on earth? Why so few getting raptured off?
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OUTLAW
............is the strange thing that a whole range of people here tell me what I believe, what I have to believe, and also have the liberty of stating that if a person does not 100 % believe what THEY tell one has to believe - then such a person is not a "real" JW!.........True
Now, the whole range of critisism centres around the fact that WBTS in detail decides what a person has to believe, think, do etc., and it follows that a JW is but a puppet of the random choices or decisions of the GB and WBTS.......True
Then some people emerge, who state that they do not feel that is how their reality is; they tell they try to follow God and Jesus, not men, and that they are capable of doing dome thinking for themselves........The WBT$ thinks for all Jehovah`s Witness`s..
Oh no! state the critics - it just ain't so! You are not a REAL JW! WE know what you believe, how you must act, think etc. - and how you state that your feelings about this is - simply is not true! WE know better than you how you feel about these matters! You lie, you CANNOT feel like that, because you are a JW! And if you feel like that, you are NOT a JW!......You can feel however you like..If you do not follow the WBT$ you cannot be a Jehovah`s Witness.....Eventually you will be tossed out
In short, we know that either you are a liar, or you are misinformed, or you are plain stupid, or you do not know the REAL truth about the JW / WBTS, or you don't know yourself - because WE know you and your daily life better than you do.........If you think you can ignore the rules of the WBT$..Then you are misinformed..You are lieing to yourself..
Strange. Very strange. Surprising. Annoying. And it shows that a meaningful discussion 99 % certain is not possible, because these other people KEEP TELLING ME WHAT I REALLY MEAN, although I mean otherwise. It is SO annoying to be told what I believe, when I in fact know that I do NOT believe what I am told that I believe.........You can come up with any story you like..You can believe what ever you want.....If you do not follow the WBT$,you are not a Jehovah`s Witness..It`s that simple..
Annoying. And surprising that stereotypes like this exist on a board that per se should be non-stereotypic......If you are a good Jehovah`s Witness..It`s your job to fit the sterotype.................................OUTLAW