What are the Major Issues with Jehovah's Witnesses?

by AllTimeJeff 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  sspo

  Reniaa is a very disobedient JW, with no respect and love for the GB or should we call them "Jesus brothers".

  Reniaa Satan was the first apostate, be careful.
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  passwordprotected

  Please try and keep the thread on topic and don't allow the attention seeker to hijack it!
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  reniaa

  I did give jeff the benefit of the doubt with his propganda title, but on reading his posting his anti-witness propaganda rhetoric and asking for corroboration from others was obvious. There are many such threads of this type on this forum and, I just try and make the readers aware that this is negative propaganda to incite negative propaganda. It only has one Goal to make the reader view the Jws negatively.

  The funny thing is I was before coming on these forums the type of person to give anti-witnesses the benefit of the doubt that they weren't all with the agenda of actively destroying the Jws and getting there families and family to stop being witnesses by any method possible involving deceit but I found this to be the absolute truth.

  I would never have ever come on this site if my sister hadn't had told me it was an actual witness forum. Now I know better but the deception was there and is still there for those that come on.

  There are very few on here who will say anything positive about witnesses they risk like I myself did of being made very unwelcome and harassed and name-called.

  Hi yizuman

  yes that is a nice scripture on holy spirit being given to us as a gift but I do not take it as a stand alone scripture but I look at the greek and hebrew scriptures as a whole and they talk of the body working together and people recieving spirit as a group all following God together. We are not meant to be sat at home alone in dis-unity.

  Reniaa
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  Mickey mouse

  Hear hear passwordprotected.

  I would suggest that most do not start a JW exit because they examine the dogma on a personal study project and find out that something isn't right. For my part, I went through my own personal hell, which somehow loosened me up and allowed me to give myself permission to explore all the weird oddities that are JW teachings.

  I must be part of a minority then. In my case it was personal study that opened the floodgates to doubt. I was studying a Watchtower article, googled "Jerusalem 607", and the rest is history. Perhaps my circumstances influenced whether I pursued the difficult course of evaluating the truthfullness of the religion I had been raised in? I had young children and the responsibility of getting their upbringing right weighed heavy on my mind. I knew it would be possible to deceive myself but to teach "the truth" as truth to my children? That would be unconsciable.

  Great thread as aways ATJ.

  * Edited to add: I have put up another thread to discuss Reniaa's response so as not to derail this one which is worthy of reasonable discussion. I would ask that other people consider posting their response to her there too.
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  LUKEWARM

  Hate is not what I feel for them. I feel compassion mixed with a certain frustration that comes from helplessness. I'm sure I can't do or say any one thing that would change anyone's mind if they really want that life. I'm sure that compassion would be returned with contempt, but still, I think they are in need of it as much as anyone is.

  Well said mindmelda - I feel exactly the same way and only wish somebody took the interest to help me see the issues years ago...

  This is why I am seeking opportunities to help the friends see the truth about the "truth"
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  wobble

  Good thread AT Jeff,

  I have noticed on other threads that you are right Jeff, the majority start their exit due to something that happened to them.just shows that the love that I speak of from many JW's on Mickeys thread to Reniaa, does not permeate the Org.

  I am another exception to what you say though, it was simply doctrine that made me exit, to be specific the idolatrous worship of the GB/FDS.

  I think that for anybody to make the move out, at some point they need to look at the doctrinal problems, otherwise they simply leave still believing it is the truth.

  So , all on here need to keep up the good work, to help Newbies see the light.

  Love

  Wobble

  p.s Thanks Mickey for showing us the way to deal with Reniaa, although she will feel self-righteous about the treatment.
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  WTWizard

  Another bait thread? How is it when the hounders all want you to just meet other men at a$$emblies, shutting out any and every prospect of ever having s**? I suppose you are supposed to love that?

  When they did that to me, I realized that I was better off outside, whether or not it was the truth, and so I had incentive to look around and find all the dirt I could find on God as well as any religions, like the witlesses. An incident like that is plenty "bait" enough to hate both God and Jehovah's Witlesses.
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  AllTimeJeff

  In this instance, I think Reinna's posts give context to this discussion.

  My point was, there are two ways (generally) that people leave. I appreciate those that actually did their own research and left. Kudos to you!

  Certainly for someone to leave with their heart and soul. they need to see for themselves the deceit, if for nothing else then to give peace of mind that they made the right decision. I still see guilt over leaving as a major impediment to moving on for those that did have to deal with a JC and other bad behavior that elders are sanctioned to do.

  Reinna is ultimately concerned with defending what she is a part of, a very human response, and very understandable from my pov. I have little desire though to engage with her on her viewpoints or her accusations because it ultimately shows the problem with JW's. However, in this case, I will, because it seems contextual in this instance.

  Reinna if you will, is a profile into the tactics of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they attempt to defend themselves by changing the subject. It is the ultimate tried and true tactic of the individual Jehovah's Witness and the organization in general. (I know many posters tire of Reinna doing "hit and run" on topics, but I always perceived that behavior as a JW acting like a JW. Thats what she was taught to do, even if she really shouldn't be on here in disobedience to the mind control of the GB... good for her for at least posting where she is forbidden.)

  Consider some statements that Reinna, as the typical JW, gives in response to the legitimate major issues JW's face

  I did give jeff the benefit of the doubt with his propaganda title, but on reading his posting his anti-witness propaganda rhetoric and asking for corroboration from others was obvious.

  Instead of conceding the possibility, as my title suggests, that JW's have major issues to deal with, an attempt is made here to put the ex JW on the defensive. JW's are trained to think they are so right, any criticism is wrong and satanic. Of course, to be in an internet forum and wanting a discussion to start is the last thing from corroboration. For example, I stated that in general, most leave because of some bad experience that happened to them as a catalyst. Up to this point, most who have responded have stated that it was indeed research on their own that started their exit. Hardly corroboration if I were looking to prove a point.

  There are many such threads of this type on this forum and, I just try and make the readers aware that this is negative propaganda to incite negative propaganda. It only has one Goal to make the reader view the Jws negatively. (italics mine)

  I respect any opinion or impression that a poster will give, including Reinna's. However, I find this limiting, as it suggests that every single person here has as their one goal the destruction of Jehovah's Witnesses. That the goal is to make sure others view the religion negatively. This is the black and white dichotomy that Reinna and other JW's like her have been trained to see this as.

  This is akin to the old communist countries banning a free media because it only tore down the governments, culture, and way of life of their citizens. Forget they weren't free to decide for themselves, what was more important was maintaining the power of the group. In this, JW's do bare marked similarities to closed off societies and governments around the world, even if they have operated best in the west due to freedom of religion laws.....

  Remember, it is wrong as a JW to discuss the goings on of the religion. One is simply expected to rejoice in new light, even if it represents error at best, lies and deceit at worse.

  I think it reasonable to point out that there are more then 2 "goals" or "agendas" if you will. As this is an open internet forum, with former JW's as its main inhabitants, are in a unique position to comment on the propaganda of the Governing Body.

  • Is it loving to disfellowship and shun, even your own immediate family members? Even if its your own son or daughter who made a "mistake" while in their teens? And while the bible does mention and condemn certain behaviors in the context of passages on potential shunning, why add to where the bible has no comment? Why can one be disfellowshipped for accepting blood? Smoking? Watching undefinable "bad and immoral" entertainment? Openly questioning even one point of doctrine? None of these "offenses" are sanctioned in the bible as something to be shunned for? Why does the GB "expose" other religions for "adding to what the bible does not specifically say" when they allow themselves to do it all the time, esp in matters relating to disfellowshipping that help them to control the group?
  • Does the bible condemn blood transfusions used as medicine? If so, (very debatable) why is any "fractional" blood based medicine allowed, when the source material from a JW point of view instructs it to be poured out on the ground as unusable?
  • How could the Governing Body teach their flock in Malawi that to have a voter registration card in a single party government would "violate neutrality" causing the death, rape and torture of tens of thousands in the 1970's, while they felt free to be any part of the United Nations? The UN is an organization that the GB has taught for decades is the wild beat that is ridden by the great harlot of Revelation 17, both destined for destruction at Armageddon. Yet, when they need some influence in countries around the world, they don't hesitate to hypocritically and cynically join when it is in their interests to. It disrespects the memories of those sincere people in Malawi to have an organization teach about "neutrality" when the leadership aligns itself with a supposed biblically condemned group.
  • Where in the bible does pursuing an education (I speak of college) to help take care of ones family in any way remotely condemned?
  • Logically and reasonably, is it right to teach and believe that the end of this world is coming "soon" because "the good news has been preached in the entire inhabited earth" when there are billions of people around the world (esp China) who have in no way ever had a chance to listen, let alone respond to the preaching of Jehovah's Witnesses? Can this be simply anything other then yet another incorrect doctrine, by their own standards?
  • Speaking of incorrect, the real Achilles heel of JW's are the multitude of failed prophecies. Even if they are wrong, a JW is expected to support it, such as the current 1914 doctrine. Yet, JW's taught that 1914 was going to be the end of the world, and did a rather clever switch to say that Jesus only came invisibly. (convenient to disprove I suppose) They then went to 1925 as the year Noah, Moses, Abraham and others were to be resurrected and hang out with Rutherford at the JW mansion called Beth Sarim in San Diego.
  • Speaking of 1914, it is based on assumption that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. This is a lie that the Governing Body is not only aware of, but cynically continues to promote. Other archaeological evidence that they use to pinpoint the destruction of Babylon by Medo-Persia at 539 BCE also accurately shows Jersualems destruction at 587/586 BCE. But to admit this and change it will cause them to have to abandon 1914, and that will undermine it all.

  • Why not address in honest plain language that they simply got 1975 wrong? And why not address the implications of them as gods sole channel today when they got this one wrong, false, messed up, imperfect, whatever you want to call it?

  These are not attempts at propaganda, or an attempt to be only negative about Jehovah's Witnesses. These are real issues that heretofore, no JW, (esp the leadership) are willing to address. They are brought up, sincerely, for public discussion.

  Any attempt at characterizing the above as anything other then a real expose of the facts regarding Jehovah's Witnesses will ultimately tell about that person then the facts they unwillingly fail to address.
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  shopaholic

  Here's one...they think they are super-special and deserving of special treatment. They believe that if they tell someone they are a JW, future employer or a business partner, etc., that the person is supposed to automatically have the utmost respect for them and just go along with whatever they say.

  A few years back we were out in service and stopped at a store to buy water, juice etc. The clerk asked what the little girl had in her bag. Her pioneer mom got offended and said "We're Jehovah's Witnesses, we don't steal." The clerk said, "Well, that Jehovah girl stuck something in her bag" Turns out the girl had stole a package of Bubblicious. And yes, she was old enough to know better.

  Several months ago, I get a call from a non-JW associate that called to ask me about a few JWs. I was familiar with the couple but did not actually know them. Turns out his company did work for them and they did not want to live up to their end of the contract. They told him they were JWs and that the wife is a pioneer...a bunch of stuff that means nothing to him. Anyway, he explained to them that the amount they paid barely covered the cost of materials and that he was already giving them a break on price because this was their first time doing such a project and he hoped to work with them again. He was livid to find out they called city and state offices with complaints in hopes of getting his licenses revoked. He filed suit against them and get this...he was then contacted by the elders in their congregation to see if they could help settle matters. I asked how did he know they were elders, he said because they told him they were Jehovah Witness elders. He asked what that meant, I told him it meant they were pastors in the church and recommended that he not meet with them and continue with the lawsuit.

  The point of the two above stories...JWs are not special. They are like everybody else but they don't know it. They think saying "I'm a witness" is suppose to make everyone rollover and dance for them and when it doesn't they figure it must be Satan oppressing them.
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  shamus100

  shopacholic,

  I enjoyed your last paragraph - how very true.

  Jehovahs Precious Witnesses aren't precious at all - they are a strange extreme religious group, even more screwed up than mormons. I put them on the same page as Christian Scientists - only Christian Scientists aren't nearly as haughty.