What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?

by AK - Jeff 107 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  reniaa

  I think this thread is interesting as it clearly shows were not wanting leadership of men leads to. That some men have to make decisions doctrinely, administratively, practically by setting up churches and appointing elders is the whole point of Pauls teachings! He is literally putting Jesus's words into a practical form to achieve Jesus's directive of making disciples to preaching the message and a large group with various positions for all, sound familiar?

  Well someone that rejects this in witnesses cannot possibility accept this in pauls writings without a lot of cognitive dissonance ignoring the clear references to setting up congregations, rulling over doctrines and members actions. so ultimately you will get people rejecting Pauls teachings as part of the bible (as we see from this thread alone) because they cannot accept it anyway. Or some that say 'lets focus on the love' those playing blinds man buff with scriptures ignoring the ones that make their head itch when it discusses leadership among men.

  Reniaa
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Pauls teachings! He is literally putting Jesus's words into a practical form

  Please explain how he did this before Jesus' words were recorded?

  Jeff

  Mea Culpa on the statement about the Crusades. I indeed intended to type Inquisition.
• 

  isaacaustin

  think this thread is interesting as it clearly shows were not wanting leadership of men leads to. That some men have to make decisions doctrinely, administratively, practically by setting up churches and appointing elders is the whole point of Pauls teachings! He is literally putting Jesus's words into a practical form to achieve Jesus's directive of making disciples to preaching the message and a large group with various positions for all, sound familiar?

  Well someone that rejects this in witnesses cannot possibility accept this in pauls writings without a lot of cognitive dissonance ignoring the clear references to setting up congregations, rulling over doctrines and members actions. so ultimately you will get people rejecting Pauls teachings as part of the bible (as we see from this thread alone) because they cannot accept it anyway. Or some that say 'lets focus on the love' those playing blinds man buff with scriptures ignoring the ones that make their head itch when it discusses leadership among men.

  Reniaa

  Reniaa, Show me in Scripture where the formulation of doctrine is to be done by a few men behind closed doors and all the members must unquestioningly follow? Jesus had a problem with that type of leadership and so do I. I am not against leadership and positions. The question is what kind of leadership. You have not, nor have you ever provided scriptures that state we should give complete and unquestioning loyalty to leadership. Obedience to where their teaching is in line with the Bible...that is scriptural. The Bible, rather than painitng a picture of an esoteric, secretive group of men who meet behind closed doors to formulate teachings shows a open intellectual forum that involves the entire congregation.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Well someone that rejects this in witnesses cannot possibility accept this in pauls writings

  Since Witnesses are not Christian, but Jehovist, they don't even come to honorable mention in this thread, Ren, as much as you want it to be about them.

  Jeff
• 

  reniaa

  snce I think Jesus was also a jehovah-ist we are in good Company AK-Jeff

  John 4:23
  Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

  Reniaa
• 

  isaacaustin

  and how does the Father want us to serve him? By honoring the Son exactly as we do the Father.
• 

  reniaa

  hi isaac

  honour yes isaac but not worship.
• 

  isaacaustin

  And look thruout the NT (except in the NW MisTranslation) and you will see Jesus was indeed worshipped...notably in Revelation by the entire heavenly host along with his Father.
• 

  awildflower

  Jesus said there is one Father. That's it. If congregations were essential to life then why did Jesus not set one up or give some clear cut instructions to his original 12 apostles? He never came close to it. He knew that if people "heard what he was saying, and got the sense of it" they would have no need for the leadership of men. Reniaa, do you not trust that you could live a moral, loving life without the WT leadership over you? I could and do! Listen to Jesus words, really listen. It is very simple, and freeing.........wf
• 

  AK - Jeff

  snce I think Jesus was also a jehovah-ist we are in good Company

  Actually, no. Jesus made no direct reference to 'Jehovah' as the Divine Name for instance. Precisely zero of the oldest manuscripts of the NT contain any Tetragrammaton or derivative of such from the lips of Jesus, or for that matter from the lips of any of the Apostles. If that name was of such critical importance to 'worship in spirit and truth', then explain why that was the case, please.

  The name Jehovah was not the name the Jews used. And there is absolutely no evidence that it is a name Jesus knew or ever used. So, Jehovist' by definition have no commonality with Jesus at all, since the primary interest of Jehovist' is 'making known Jehovah's name' - I'm sure you recall the JW hymm.

  No. Jesus would not recognise his ideas among you people. Paul would however see his control tactics infused at core in your theological approach, and I am sure he would be pleased. Once again, however, this thread is not about Jehovah's Witnesses or any other Jehovist movements. It is about "Christianity", and how it would be different without Paul's writings.

  Jeff