wide ... broad... life.....death

by KAYTEE 80 Replies latest jw friends

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  parakeet

  reniaa: ...... but if you read the bible carefully .....

  Dang! That's what I've been doing wrong. I haven't been reading the bible carefully. Fourteen years as a dub, and I didn't read the bible carefully. Yet, about a billion different Christian religions have been reading the bible carefully for several centuries, and they've come up with about a billion different ways to carefully read that scripture. If you read this post carefully, reniaa, maybe you'll realize that about a billion hours or more of careful reading of the Bible are represented by most of the posters here.

  reniaa: Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven ....... "

  That's right. Some will end up on a "paradise" earth to live forever with tame lions and dubs, the poor schlubs. Do you have your house picked out yet, renaii?
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Narkissos,

  Note both ways are described as a matter of doing, without the least reference to faith in Jesus or lack thereof.

  Sound like salvation through works alone to me and faith is not required in Jesus. Paul says the opposite

  Romans 9:30-33 (New International Version)

  Israel's Unbelief

  30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written:
  "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
  and a rock that makes them fall,
  and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." Yes, they had no faith in Jesus, the Rock and they stumble.

  It is essential to have have faith in Jesus i.e. believe He is the gate.

  Also the action, one has to walk through the gate and get on the path.

  James 2:17 (New International Version)

  17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

  James 2:21-22 (New International Version)

  21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

  James 2:26 (New International Version)

  26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Chalam

  Hello Reniaa,

  hi oompa you hit the nail on the head it's the 'Hello goodbye formula.

  you wake someone up out of death tell him he's a sinner and send him to hell

  You can believe what you want, but you have clearly gone against whole sections of scripture. Are you saying Jesus is a liar or is deluded?!

  Also, by His on words, He only does what the Father tells Him so are you also calling Jehovah a liar?!

  John 5:24-29 (New International Version)

  24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

  28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

  Maybe you should read the rest of the verses carefully I posted. They all say the same thing.

  Daniel 12:2 (New International Version)

  2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

  John 5:28 (New International Version)

  28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice.

  Matthew 25:46 (New International Version)

  46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

  The truth is that the punishment that the bible speaks of is much worse than the WT teaches. It is eternal and conscious.

  The good news is that there is a free gift and you can have eternal life.

  You don't have to knock on thousands or doors to get it, try and lead a good life and not sin, try and do some good works.

  No, just knock on Jesus' door, ask Him for the free gift of salvation and you will be welcomed in with both arms :)

  Revelation 22 (New International Version)

  17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

  Reniaa, heed the warning in the very next verse.

  1 8 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

  You have directly taken away from these verses

  Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)

  10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

  Revelation 20:12-13 (New International Version)

  12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  BurnTheShips

  Thanks for pointing out the Didache, the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Narkissos. I believe it is most probably dated to the First Century, making it possibly older than some of the books in the NT. It gives us a great window of what Christianity was like at the time. The parallels to Matthew/James are obvious now that you mention them.

  However, the enumeration of the "ways of death" sounds a lot like Paul's enumeration of evil qualities at the start of 2 Tim 3: as well as Paul's listing of the "fruitage of the flesh"---- at least to my ears.

  BTS
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  reniaa

  JIm-tx

  I cannot rewrite the bible to suit your worries, will hitler be resurrected? your guess is as good as mine. The bible allows for some not to be written in the book of life. this is were we put trust in God, who I think wants most to weed out those that cannot do anything but hate will not be resurrected.

  Parakeet I think christendom is handicapped when reading the bible the 1000 year reign on earth is just not possible with there souls in heaven or hell doctrine. To them people have already been sorted and sent no second chance so when they read this in the bible they have to ignore it.

  Whats wrong with a paradise earth? "the meek shall inherit the earth" we get to marry and have kids down here and feel the sun on our faces, I reckon being in heaven is just as good for those that go there but it will be very very different.

  Reniaa
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  isaacaustin

  reniaa:

  Whats wrong with a paradise earth? "the meek shall inherit the earth" we get to marry and have kids down here and feel the sun on our faces, I reckon being in heaven is just as good for those that go there but it will be very very different.

  My reply: Yes New Jerusalem will be on earth. However, the 2 class doctrine of a ruling class from heaven ruling over the earth is unscriptual.
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  parakeet

  reniaa: Parakeet I think christendom is handicapped when reading the bible the 1000 year reign on earth is just not possible with there souls in heaven or hell doctrine. To them people have already been sorted and sent no second chance so when they read this in the bible they have to ignore it.

  Wow! Two millennium's worth of the finest minds in the world pondering the meaning of that scripture, but only your interpretation is correct, reniaa. It must be great to be so learned as to discount as nothing what biblical scholars have spent lifetimes trying to understand. I'm sure when Aquinas or Merton read that scripture, they said, "That bit of scripture doesn't make sense. I'll just ignore it." You poor, deluded schlub of a dub, reniaa.

  reniaa: Whats wrong with a paradise earth?

  It'll be full of braindead dubs that think (I use the term loosely here) like you.
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  reniaa

  Hi isaac

  who will be in new jerusalem? and when Jesus says his first fruits will be KINGS and Priests in heaven what did he mean, in fact what does it mean to be co-heir with Jesus to God? the burden of proof is on you isaac, blank statement is not proof.

  Parakeet

  you are resorting to ad hominen now so no point in debating you, it's a technique that is a resort of the poor debator.

  Reniaa
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  isaacaustin

  Hi isaac

  who will be in new jerusalem? and when Jesus says his first fruits will be KINGS and Priests in heaven what did he mean, in fact what does it mean to be co-heir with Jesus to God? the burden of proof is on you isaac, blank statement is not proof.

  My reply: Who will be in New jerusalem? Those who are in Christ...those who are covered by Jesus blood and saved.

  Please direct me to the verse that says Kings and priests in heaven. To be co-heirs with Christ means to rule with him. Where will he be? On earth, as the bible shows a visible return. The burden of proof is on you to show otherwise since the bible shows a visible, not invisible return.

  	Gal 4:4	But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
  	Gal 4:5	To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
  	Gal 4:6	And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
  		Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Where does this say rule in heaven?
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  isaacaustin

  Revelation speaks of kings and priests. Direct me to where it says they will rule in heaven.