Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ? (page 7)

Spike Tassel

Genesis 1:2 says "… and God's active force was moving to and from over the surface of the waters." We might start there.

"According to my understanding, the Bible teaches that we have Jehovah (Supreme, Almighty God, person, Source of truth), Jesus Christ (Vice-Supreme, Mighty God, person, Word of truth), and holy spirit (impersonal force, Spirit of truth)."

Here's a few facts regarding the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides, he speaks and he hears (Jn. 16:13). The Holy Spirit intercedes (Rom. 8:26). The Holy Spirit forbids certain actions (Acts 16:6,7). The Holy Spirit sends into service (Acts 13:4). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Eph. 4:30). The Holy Spirit may be blasphemed (Mt. 12:31). He can be lied to (Acts 5:3). The Holy Spirit can be insulted or outraged (Heb. 10:29). And the Holy Spirit can be resisted (Acts 7:51). These are all traits of a person.

Also....

Acts 13:1, 2: (KJV)

"In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.' "
(NWT)
Now in Antioch there were prophets and teachers in the local congregation, Bar´na·bas as well as Sym´e·on who was called Ni´ger, and Lucius of Cy·re´ne, and Man´a·en who was educated with Herod the district ruler, and Saul. As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar´na·bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.”

Here we see the personal pronoun I. So this again shows that the Holy Spirit is not an active force, but instead a person

Chalam

Hi Spike,

Since you like Hebrew so much maybe you should check it before you assume the NWT is the "most accurate" bible?

http://biblos.com/genesis/1-2.htm

And the Spirit

7307. ruwach (roo'-akh)

From ruwach; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. A sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions) -- air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

of God

430. 'elohiym (el-o-heem')

Plural of 'elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative -- angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

I do not see either the word "active" or "force" at all. Neither does the rest of the bible agree with this translation. For example, in Acts 2, when God's Holy Spirit came there was the sound of a "might rushing wind". The Greek NT agree with the Hebrew OT, a wind or breath. Once again, not one word which translates "active" or "force" in the Greek. The NWT is pure heresy, through and through.

All the best,

Stephen

PSacramento

Even if we are to agree that the HS is God's active force, doesn't that mean thatit has all the charateristics that God gives it?

This is not a jedi/sith thing here.

Chalam

Hi PS,

The important thing here is the WT deception. They get the falsehood in there nice and early (second verse in the bible) because the Holy Spirit is paramount to finding God, without Him you can't.

Now, by saying He is a "force" strongly suggests He is impersonal i.e. not a person and they reinforce this falsehood with their "doctrine".

The WT do not want you to hear His voice, feel what He is feeling or get in touch with Him at all. They have elevated themselves to His place.

All the best,

Stephen

Spike Tassel

Androb31 states a few "facts" about the "Holy Spirit", which the Bible also calls the spirit of truth. I suggest that "accurate perception of truth" would be an accurate replacement wherever "Holy Spirit" is discussed. Also, we need to bear in mind that Greek is like French in that it requires a "gender", which is translated as "he" here, but in English I suggest should be more correctly translated as "it", unless one wants to see the "naked Greek" thought process.

As such, "the accurate perception of truth", personified, can guide, speak, hear, intercede, forbid, send into service, be grieved, be blasphemed, be lied to, be insulted or outraged, be resisted, set apart for some work, and call individuals. These are all traits of a person, which is what the literary device of personification does.

It may well be, I suggest, that rather than draw attention to the person(s) actually instigating the particular action, that the literary device "the holy spirit" was put in place, indicating a modesty and humility appropriate to a humble servant (body) attuned to Jehovah-and-Jesus Christ's methods.

Spike Tassel

Stephen makes the bold claim that "The NWT is pure heresy, through and through." I suggest that "heresy" is a term the Catholics like to use when they want to be disparaging. I am not familiar at the moment of another application.

androb31

"I suggest that "accurate perception of truth" would be an accurate replacement wherever "Holy Spirit" is discussed"

Sounds like WT logic. Changing word meanings to back up biased beliefs which don't exist in scripture (cult lingo). Where is the term "accurate perception of truth" in the scriptures in reference to the meaning of Holy Spirit.

Chalam

Here you go Spike

Main Entry: her·e·sy
Pronunciation: \'her-?-se, 'he-r?-\
Function: noun

b : an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

Yes, the NWT is heretical. There is nothing about "active" or "force" in Genesis 1:2 in Hebrew.

These bibles are non heretical (amongst many others)

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Spirit of God was hovering over the water.

King James Bible

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

American King James Version

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.

American Standard Version

And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Bible in Basic English

And the earth was waste and without form; and it was dark on the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God was moving on the face of the waters.

Douay-Rheims Bible

And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Darby Bible Translation

And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

English Revised Version

And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Webster's Bible Translation

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

World English Bible

Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God's Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

Young's Literal Translation

the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

They all say either "Spirit of God" or "God's Spirit".

If the NWT said something like "and God's wind was blowing over the waters" I could accept it.

However, it does not. Also, add the WT doctrine to the verse "Holy Spirit is not a person but an impersonal active force" and you sure have total heresy i.e. a doctrine contrary to the truth.

If you can show me three verses that you think show the Holy Spirit is an impersonal "active force" I will bring your thirty that show He is no such thing.

All the best,

Stephen

Spike Tassel

Lack of evidence does not demonstrate evidence of lack.

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

Share this