Is God's name absent in the Christian Scriptures?

by Spike Tassel 163 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  PSacramento

  The argument that YHWH was removed from the NT on purpose doesn't make a lot of sense, it smacks of conspiracy and just not that feesable considering the 1000's of scriptures we have.

  Like it has been mentioned before, to accept that is to accept the view that the NT is NOT sacred or inspired.

  I don't have issues with insering YHWH into passages from the OT that are prsnt in the NT, if the context calls for it, but to insert it randomly where the term "lord" is violates the rule of translation.

  When we translate anythign we must use the source that is closest to the original source and to add to that is, well, unjustifiable without proof and right now, there doesn't seem to be much proof other than possible speculation.

  To say that God allowed His Name to be removed in some parts, but kept alive in others and only be inserted randomly, well that is just a tad of a stretch.

  A couple of facts we can't deny: Jesus told us to pray to Our Father, when Jesus prayed he used Father and Abba.

  Jehovah is NOT the correct name of God or even the correct tranlation or pronunciation of YHWH.
• 

  isaacaustin

  reniaa says:

  hi donni bit of personal reasoning but thats all it is, none of your conclusions are anything other than personal speculation. My reply: Not that I necessarily agree with DOnny's speculation there ....but a lot more sound than the WTs personal reasoning of the men of the GB And bibliclly unsound just by refering to the lords prayer when Jesus says 'let your name be sanctified' you are seeing a reference that shows God's name is still loved by Jesus. and even if you allow that we say Father more (although the prolific use of Lord rather than father in the Nt would preclude this on that point alone, as the title 'Lord' is definately not as personal as father or Jehovah) My reply: It is not at all unsound. As the WTs own pub, the Insight book points out, name had a much deeper meaning at that time that simply what we view it as today. It was the person behind the letters. It doesn't stop YHWH being his actual name and therefore not to be wiped out, just because I am my daughters mum it doesn't me being (my personal name) as well). nice try though :) reniaa My reply: Ridiculous analogy...
• 

  reniaa

  hi on the way out,

  Since we don't have any original manuscripts the doorway is still open to removal of the name before the copies we have were written, but since we also have many cases of tampering with bible throughout history, You can see that inspired as it is, the keeping of it in an as near to inpired state as possible is upto mankind.

  Reniaa
• 

  isaacaustin

  Reniaa...so now you are downgrading the use of the name Jehovah in the NT to simply an open possibility.
  The keeping of it to as near an inspired state should be done with care and logic. When we have over 5000 manuscripts showing no presence of the Divine name, then we see all the places where it was supposedly removed have the same word consistently (thus no real sign of tampering)....and observe that the Divine name was preserved in the IT....there is no basis to go ahead and add, not restore- as no proof has been shown of removal- to God's word. In an older WT they actually admitted they did this just to make a separation of the Father and Son...I need awhile to find the article though.
• 

  Chalam

  but since we also have many cases of tampering with bible throughout history

  Not so, the dead sea scrolls totally blows that idea out of the water

  Dead Sea scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Scribe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Scribe accuracy

  Further information: Dead Sea Scrolls

  Beginning in the 6th century and into the 10th century A.D., some European Jewish scribes continued a similar method for copying manuscripts of the Old Testament in the originalHebrew language as originated by the scribes before Christ.

  Until 1948, the oldest manuscripts of the Old Testament dated back to 895 A.D. In 1947, a shepherd boy discovered some scrolls inside a cave West of the Dead Sea. These manuscripts dated between 100 B.C. and 100 A.D. Over the next decade, more scrolls were found in caves and the discovery became known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Every book in the Old Testament was represented in this discovery except Esther. Numerous copies of each book were discovered, such as the 25 copies of Deuteronomy that were found.

  While there are other items found among the Dead Sea Scrolls not currently in the Old Testament, the texts on the whole testify to the accuracy of the scribes copying down through the ages, though many variations and errors occurred. [16] The Dead Sea Scrolls are currently the best route of comparison to the accuracy and consistency of translation for the Old Testament, due to their date of origin being the oldest out of any Biblical text currently known.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  This whole thread is just circular in arguments and presents many straw-men.

  It was never there. It was never there. Let me make this perfectly clear. "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or the tetragrammaton or any citing of a "divine name" was never there in the original writings of the Greek testament.

  It is extremely poor to say the original writings are not available so we don't know if all the copies of them are wrong- all of them.

  I could just as easily say that the original writings told of Jesus being married with children but the great apostasy that happened right after the 1st century removed all the proof of that, or that Jesus had a male lover. Or that Satan and Jehovah had finally settled their differences in the original documents of the Gospels, but the church removed that to keep people afraid of Hell.

  All straw-men. It was never there. Did I mention that "it was never there" ?
• 

  isaacaustin

  OTWO, I think you hae made the nest, most concise statement here. All this other JW rhetoric is simply building on an unproven premise- the great apostsy set in after the apostles died and God's name was removed from the bible. One could simply abound with things that were subsequently removed...due to this great apostasy. And the history of the church conflicts with the WT rhetoric of this great apostasy.
• 

  reniaa

  Isaac

  Why reveal your name only to remove it?

  Deuteronomy 28:58
  If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—Jehovah your God-

  Deuteronomy 32:3
  I will proclaim the name of Jehovah. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

  Psalm 20:7
  Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of Jehovah our God.

  Psalm 44:8
  In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah

  was David lying here?

  Psalm 63:11
  But the king will rejoice in God; all who swear by God's name will praise him, while the mouths of liars will be silenced.

  Psalm 69:30
  I will praise God's name in song and glorify him with thanksgiving.

  Proverbs 30:9
  Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is Jehovah ?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God.
  
  Isaiah 29:23
  When they see among them their children, the work of my hands, they will keep my name holy; they will acknowledge the holiness of the Holy One of Jacob, and will stand in awe of the God of Israel.

  and jesus himself here

  Revelation 3:11-13 (New International Version)

  11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
• 

  PSacramento

  OnTheWayOut,

  Well said and in the end, unless proven otherwise, correct.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Reniaa:

  It is revealed in the NT in the person of Jesus.

  Even a non-Trinitarian who is not a captive to the WT could clearly see it was fulfilled in the person of Jesus and that is the name we are to look to for salvation.

  And you completely missed the point that name had a deeper meaning than pronunciation of letters- it was the person behind those letter.