An uncaring Jesus?

by PSacramento 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  A friend of mine and I were discussing Chritianity the other day and he mentioned that, at times, Jesus seemd rather cruel and outside the proper Tradions of the Jewish people.

  How so I asked?

  EX:Matthew 8:21-22, where a man wants to follow Jesus and askes to be allowed to bury his dead father and Jesus replies for him to let the dead bury the dead.

  There is also the case of Matthew 15:21-28 with the Cannanite woman who's daughter was possed and jesus said that he was their for the Jews and that it would not be right to take the childrens bread and toss it to the dogs.

  Both passages are rather, well...cruel.

  But.

  In my view, and this is mine, they seemed to be "tests" that Jesus was doing, in regards to the Cannanite woman, her answer to the crule comparision was simply that even Dog's eat the crumbs off their masters table and Jesus' reply was that she had Great Faith and that her daughter was healed.

  It seemed to me as a test of how much we are willing to give of ourselves ( in this case Pride) for the betterment of our loved ones, She was more than willing to be humble and as such, her duaghter was saved.

  In regards to the man who wanted to bury his father, something that was crucial in Jewish Law (Honour they father) it seemed to me as being another test, I would think that if the man has said yes right away that Jesus probably would have said, " Go and bury your Father, I will be here for you", the man's faith haveing been demonstrated to be true and willing.

  Thoughts?
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  snowbird

  I agree totally with your thoughts on the Syro-Phoenician woman; she was persistent, showed humility and great faith, and her request was granted.

  Here's the text of Matthew 8:18-22 from The Message Bible:

  Matthew 8: 18 -19 When Jesus saw that a curious crowd was growing by the minute, he told his disciples to get him out of there to the other side of the lake. As they left, a religion scholar asked if he could go along. "I'll go with you, wherever," he said.

  20 Jesus was curt: "Are you ready to rough it? We're not staying in the best inns, you know."

  21 Another follower said, "Master, excuse me for a couple of days, please. I have my father's funeral to take care of."

  22 Jesus refused. "First things first. Your business is life, not death. Follow me. Pursue life."

  The man seemed to have requested time to plan his father's funeral rather than attend it. That makes a difference, doesn't it?

  Sylvia
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  BurnTheShips

  There is also the case of Matthew 15:21-28 with the Cannanite woman who's daughter was possed and jesus said that he was their for the Jews and that it would not be right to take the childrens bread and toss it to the dogs.
  
  Everything that was done by Jesus was used as a teaching lesson. Jesus was with his disciples, who were Jewish and held Gentiles in disdain. Jesus showed that a Gentile with faith could recieve God's favor. Remember, Jesus healed the woman's child after treating her like a typical Jew of that time would. This reminds me of the Good Samaritan parable also. BTS
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  Narkissos

  The Gospel portraits of Jesus are very complex and do include a number of (from our modern perspective) "not-so-nice" attitudes and sayings which may not reduce to a simple and single explanation.

  The two cases you bring up are rather different in nature and origin; one comes from Mark 7:24ff which depicts what we might call (with some anachronism and stereotype) Jesus' "Jewish prejudice" against Gentiles. This imo fits quite well in the context of Mark where Jesus is portrayed in a tragicomical way as a man "possessed" and "driven" by the Spirit which he doesn't control, to a destiny which surpasses his "normal" understanding. In this passage the Syro-Phoenician woman is instrumental in revealing to him, through the dialogue, the universal scope of his mission (in the author's eyes of course). This make better sense in the context of Mark than having an all-knowing and all-loving Jesus pretending prejudice. But this Markan sense is somehow toned down in the Matthean "Canaanite" story.

  The other is absent from Mark, and common to Matthew and Luke (9:57-62, which adds a third wannabe disciple -- who wants to dismiss formally from his folks -- to the two in Matthew 8:18-22); with the burial motif, "Jesus" stands out against current Jewish (and more generally social) family traditions and values, in a Cynic-like manner. Deliberately shocking, but not quite from the same point of view.
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  sacolton

  Another scripture would be John 2:1-11. His mother informs Jesus that the wedding has no wine and Jesus responds, "Woman, what do I have to do with that? My time has not come." I've seen it worded several different ways. From a more gentle "Dear woman, why do you concern me?" to more snappish tone, "Woman, what does this have to do with me?"

  Now, I can completely understand where Jesus is coming from. He was God in the flesh! He's not a barkeeper.
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  palmtree67

  I seem to remember it being pointed out that the man who wanted to bury his father,....His father hadn't even died yet.
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  sir82

  Also Mark 1:41. Some ancient manuscripts say that Jesus felt anger (rather than compassion) when approached by the leper who wanted to be healed.

  See chapter 5 of Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus for more detail.
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  villabolo

  Also, Matthew 18:15-17 where Jesus lays out the rules for shunning. If a person refuses to listen to counsel he should be treated like a tax collector or a gentile(non-Jew).
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  read good books

  Jesus has said some mean things like the famous Matthew 10:34 quote...

  "Do not think that Icameto bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but asword. For Icameto set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

  I prefer a quote like this ...

  If you don't find God in the next person you meet, it is a waste of time looking for him further.

  Mahatma Gandhi
  Indian political and itual leader (1869 - 1948)
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  lezleesm

  Jesus was a man on a mission... mission to die as ransom for the sake of mankind... that in itself is the greatest care ever shown to man....

  Matthew 10:34 is a prophecy and not a policy statement....

  The occassions wherein he appears uncaring can be interepreted reasonably to be meaning different as already done by some of the previous posts... the larger picture of giving his life for mankind should be kept in mind...