First Post Musings

by Perry 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hi Redhorsewoman,

    Thank you for a nice welcome and kind words.

    You wrote: "I've felt for some time that a church should simply be a group of people gathering together for spiritual support....not for creating an exclusive God club."

    It was a real eye-opener how many times the Apostle Paul used the word "FOOL" to describe the people he was writing to. I ran across it three times while skimming Romans, 1 COR. and Ephesians just this morning.

    It caught me a little by surprise because I was reading from a study bible that includes historical context and audience descriptions etc. In other words, it read more like a college history book that takes original writings and fills in the gaps, making it really come alive. Anyway, after I read that expression three times I realized it wasn't just a figure of speech. Paul was really miffed and thought they were real idiots.

    An honest reading shows that leagalism and heiarchial structure was a constant problem. Paul would go over essentially the same thing over and over and ask them why on earth they would want to go back to that non-sense after experiencing the freedom Christ offered.

    I asked my sociology professor once how many people could come together in a group and still keep a heiarchy and from developing and taking on a life of its own. She thought deeply and then said if they were all very highly educated and posessed deep awareness the maximum number would be 8 or 10.

    That being the case the WTBS is not unique in its structure. But instead of trying to constantly battle this natural phenomonon with strong counsel like Paul did, the WTBS strongly advocates, nurtures, and cherishes its structure arguably to the point of equating it with Jehovah God himself.

    While any group whether it is social , religious, or political will have to do battle with its own organization to keep it from taking over the focus, and ultimately destroying the very ideas that gave birth to the group; we can look for groups that understand this process as did Paul and encourage members to stay focused on the ideas and not the vehicle that was put together to carry or promote the ideas.

    In other words, there is a strong tendency in groups that have matured over time to realize that the very ideas that started the movement are now the greatest threat to its current heirarchial structure. More and more effort must be put into silencing the people who remind the group of its original purposes. The majority of the members, having exchanged the focal point from the original lofty ideals for their realitive juxtaposition in the matrix, feel the threat too and simply go along with the "party line".

    I have found a couple of churches that understand and put forth an honest effort to curb it and keep under control. With my background I can still see it alive and well though. However, just the awareness alone keeps me free of possible entanglements though. Nothing has really changed since Paul's day. The nice thing is that there is the room I need to continue to be a christian and to get and give the support everyone needs. I went to 6 or 8 before I found one that I felt would work for me. Ended up in a non-denominational with a conservative bent. Its not perfect....and that's the point, it feels real.

    Sorry to ramble on so long. :)

    Perry

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Perry,
    May I add my welcome to the others. Fascinating story.Thank you for sharing!! Tina

    Vive Bene
    Spesso L'amore
    Di Risata Molto!!!

  • teejay
    teejay

    Welcome back, Perry. Don't you just hate/love computers?!!

    I liked your answer about what you lost when you left the organization. Made sense. In other words, your family life, thanks to the Watchtower Society, was never like the ones Rockwell captured in his paintings of Americana, eh? I understand. Completely.

    For many years my family was the same. Not surprisingly, it is only since most of us kids have left the Org. that we have begun to enjoy one another simply as people, without all the focus in our get-togethers put on marketing/selling the WTS spiel. I know I'm lucky, considering my background as one raised in the truth. It could be much worse.

    Just a word of caution. Many ideas we think are original we actually pick up through off-the-cuff remarks and attitudes from our friends. Pretty soon they become our worldview and go unchallenged if for no reason other than repetitiveness.

    Thanks for the caveat. I embrace it. I believe Solomon was onto something when he reportedly said that there's nothing new under the sun. While at times my thoughts *are* unconventional, I understand that they aren't truly original.

    Unfortunately (for them), I have found that others (some right here on JW.com) actually admit to agreeing with me from time to time. Makes you wonder about THEM. I do.

    Take care,
    tj

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hi Tina,

    Thanks for the welcome! Hey, was that Italian you were talkin'?? What did it mean? Are you Italian?

    Perry

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well Perry, I'm sure you've grown and matured, but I still think you should have broken your own god-damn window when you were locked out of the apartment, ya barstard!

    Many ideas we think are original we actually pick up through off-the-cuff remarks and attitudes from our friends. Pretty soon they become our worldview and go unchallenged if for no reason other than repetitiveness.
    Hence the admonition at 1 cor. 15:33 eh?

    TJ,

    I have found that others (some right here on JW.com) actually admit to agreeing with me from time to time.
    You'll never let me live that down, will you? I'm gonna try to do better.
  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Perry!
    I'm Italian American. My signature translated says,Live well,Love much,Laugh often'.I'm kinda rusty but working hard on it. Cheers! Tina

    Vive Bene
    Spesso L'amore
    Di Risata Molto!!!

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Hi, Perry!

    Your first post musings are very good reading.

    Sounds like you have the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and to suspend judgement until you get more info. Thats my definition of an educated person.
    Are you a fan of F. Scott Fitzgerald? He said:

    The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
    Your comments about legalism and family pretension reminded me of one of my favorite movies, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. In many ways it reminds me of my life as a JW and the struggle to face painful truth.

    Maggie describes a life of pretense with her husband, Brick:

    I'm not living with you. We occupy the same cage, that's all.
    Gooper and Mae could be a typical JWs, doing what they are told to do by "Big Daddy" and hoping for a reward:

    For him, it was always Brick, always. From the day he was born, he was always partial to Brick. Why? Big Daddy wanted me to become a lawyer. I became a lawyer. He said: 'Get married.' I got married. He said: 'Have kids.' I had kids. He said: 'Live in Memphis.' I lived in Memphis. Whatever he said: 'Do!' I did all right. I don't give a damn whether Big Daddy likes me or don't like me, or did or never did or will or will never. I've appealed for common decency and fair-play. Well, now I'm tellin' ya. I intend to protect my interests. I'm not a corporation lawyer for nothin'...
    Big Daddy at first thinks that mendacity is a necessary evil:

    Mendacity. What do you know about mendacity? I could write a book on it...Mendacity. Look at all the lies that I got to put up with. Pretenses. Hypocrisy. Pretendin' like I care for Big Mama, I haven't been able to stand that woman in forty years. Church! It bores me. But I go. And all those swindlin' lodges and social clubs and money-grabbin' auxiliaries. It's-it's got me on the number one sucker list. Boy, I've lived with mendacity. Now why can't you live with it? You've got to live with it. There's nothin' to live with but mendacity. Is there?
    Big Daddy changes:

    I'm not gonna stupify myself with that stuff. I wanna think clear. I wanna see everything and I wanna feel everything. I won't mind goin'. I've got the guts to die. What I want to know is, 'Have you got the guts to live?'
    I hate apologies, especially for the truth.
    I look forward to reading more of your musings.

    Ginny

  • Perry
    Perry

    TeeJay, I think that is great that your family is able to enjoy each other now more than ever before. You're right, you are lucky to be able to enjoy it. I bet you appreciate it now more than ever.

    You are right about the Rockwell analogy. I was very much the idealist growing up. I thought if I could just clown aroud enough, make enough jokes, be clever enough, then the family would surely wipe the grimmaces off their faces and enjoy each other's company a bit. I actually got pretty god at it and could always get a few smiles from the members. But, as soon as they regained their composure, the attitude came back. I think they actually felt guilty about laughing a litte. I'm sure they hoped that I would mature and stop the childish antics.

    Small immediate gatherings were the worst. Larger ones required a greater degree of socialness and were much better. The immediate family gatherings resembled a para-military style, covert action group. Everyone discussing very important aspects of the impending doom about to befall mankind. I used to think that they weren't even having a conversation at all. Everyone took turns quoting snipets from the Watchtower publications. No one's comments was really recognised by others because everyone couldnt wait to prove to the others that they could mimmick something just as well. It used to make me feel so different and guilty to be thinking about passing the football or wrestling during it all.

    I would usualy wait until several possible armagedon scenarios were touted (all repeated from the publications) and everyone was feeling so proud to be in the elite unit destined to become "princes in all the earth"; then I would say something like, "Who wants to see a card trick"? Or, look at the new trick I just taught my dog.
    Slowly some of the color would return to their faces and they would get a kick out of just how silly someone could actually be in the face of such an impending diaster.

    Eventually as I got older I didn't have the strength to crow bar normal human emotions out of them.

    Yes, TJ count yourself very lucky!

  • Perry
    Perry

    Cool Tina,

    I'm half Italian too. Most of the relatives came here in the 1870's to 1890's from Sicily. I always wanted a tatoo with that phrase from Ceasar: I came, I saw , I conqored. I can't remember how to spell it in Italian. Something like Vene, Vidi, Vechi. Do you know how to spell it correcstly?

    Chao

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hello Ginny Tosken,

    Yes, I like F. Scott Fitzgerald. Do you write?

    Quote: "Poetry is either something that lives like fire inside you -- like music to the musician or Marxism to the Communist -- or else it is nothing, an empty, formalized bore around which pedants can endlessly drone their notes and explanations."

    Quote: "What people are ashamed of usually makes a good story".

    By the way, I like your name.....sounds very author-like. Did you used to post on H2O years ago?

    You quoted:

    I'm not gonna stupify myself with that stuff. I wanna think clear. I wanna see everything and I wanna feel everything. I won't mind goin'. I've got the guts to die. What I want to know is, 'Have you got the guts to live?'
    I like that. I saw the play in an out door theater once.....maybe I'll go rent the movie now.

    Perry

    Perry

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit