How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

by Lady Liberty 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I remember it quite distinctly because the "correction" occurred during my JW time; back then many "brothers" used to include the word "médiateur" at the end of their prayers (e.g. "through Jesus our mediator"), and some had a hard time breaking the habit. Those who lacked imagination picked intermédiaire as a close (and apparently safe) substitute.

    Actually it was never more than a technicality to me. A "logical" consequence (in an obsessive kind of logic, for sure) of the whole theory of "two classes" of Christians, only one of which is supposed to be a party to the "Covenant". I would take issue with the general doctrine rather than just the restriction of the word "mediator".

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    I found this out on deeper research on the meanings of the covenant relationship between the firstfruits and Jesus from Jw's, The bible is clear the coheirs with Jesus have a significant covenant with him and we as the great crowd....

    Revelation 7:9-17 (New International Version)

    9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
    "Salvation belongs to our God,
    who sits on the throne,
    and to the Lamb." 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
    "Amen!
    Praise and glory
    and wisdom and thanks and honor
    and power and strength
    be to our God for ever and ever.
    Amen!"

    13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"

    14 I answered, "Sir, you know."

    And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,
    "they are before the throne of God
    and serve him day and night in his temple;
    and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
    16 Never again will they hunger;
    never again will they thirst.
    The sun will not beat upon them,
    nor any scorching heat.
    17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
    he will lead them to springs of living water.
    And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

    This scripture is so clear that aside from the 144.000 there are a great multitude whose believe in Jesus and Jehovah in the tribulation which saves them. They literally have had their robes washed white. Who could these people be? the resurrected from the dead? nope it is clear they have come through the tribulation, and with the cleaned robes and their praise to Jehovah and Jesus his lamb shows they have come through by their commitment to God and Jesus and with the 144.000.

    Sometimes it is easy to keep to the shallow things in the Jws the simple truths but once you start researching the covenant arrangement it is facinating stuff.

    Things like the original jewish covenant being the shadow of this one and so we knew the chosen ones the levitical priests represented the rest of israel when going to Gods temple and doing the sacrifices etc the average jews never came into contact with not even the kings.

    Colossians 2:17
    These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    And Jesus is high priest to us ALL and we shouldn't belittle this, mediator is for specific covnant details with the 144.000, high priest is for everyone.

    Hebrews 5 (New International Version)

    1 Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3 This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people.

    4 No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
    "You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father. [a] " [b] 6 And he says in another place,
    "You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek."
    [c]

    7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

    11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. look into Jesus being the high priest it is quite deep amd interesting.

    Reniaa

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Reniaas rubbish:

    This scripture is so clear that aside from the 144.000 there are a great multitude whose believe in Jesus and Jehovah in the tribulation which saves them. They literally have had their robes washed white. Who could these people be? the resurrected from the dead? nope it is clear they have come through the tribulation, and the cleaned robes and there praise to Jehovah and Jesus his lamb shows they have come through by their commitment to God and Jesus.

    My reply: No it is not crystal clear that those are the meanings. There are different interpretations- the WT happens to have one that suits their authority structure.

    Reniaa says:

    Sometimes it is easy to keep to the shallow things in the Jws the simple truths but once you start researching the covenant arrangement it is facinating stuff.

    My reply: The JWs do not have simple truths.

    Things like the original jewish covenant being the shadow of this one and so we knew the chosen ones the levitical priests represented the rest of israel when going to Gods temple and doing the sacrifices etc the average jews never came into contact with not even the kings.

  • cattails
    cattails
    cat.......screw the bible......

    Oompa. No....screw you buddy!

    I say that regretfully cause I like you but...get a life...

    and stop raggin' on the Bible. It brings hope to many.

    It does to me, it's what keeps me going. It's what helps

    me stay sane somedays.


  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Yes very sad the JWs concept of salvation. They are saved by extension...due to their association with 'the annointed'. Thus they must stay clsely in touch with the org for salvation.

  • cattails
    cattails

    Jesus bought and paid for me a long time ago. No Dorko in a dorm room in New York can change that

    Well said! No Dorko's interpretation has a right to take a beautiful

    teaching of redemption and salvation away from a believer's

    heart. Shame on them all!


  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    agreed cattails...the WT is quite reprhensible for shutting up the kingdom of the heavens to its captives.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    more reniaa rubbish:

    And Jesus is high priest to us ALL and we shouldn't belittle this, mediator is for specific covnant details with the 144.000, high priest is for everyone.

    My reply: I agree jesus is high priest of all. Show me a scripture limiting his priesthood to 144,000 when the bible clearly states there is one mediator between God and man. I know the WT says not all men...but that is simpy another fiction devised by them to support their own authority structure. The verses you quote afterward are fine, but simply a red herring drawing away from the baseless assertion of the WT that Jesus is not mediator for all.

  • carla
    carla

    I don't understand how jw's don't seem bothered by this when you tell them that is a wt teaching. Often they will flat out deny it. So Jesus is not the mediator for the r & f but He is the High Priest? a priest they are not allowed to talk to or pray to? of what value is Jesus for a r & f then? Do jw's ever read the New Testament on their own? I know the NWT has added and taken away many things but this is really over the top, to take away the main purpose of the NT, that being the need of Jesus as a mediator for all men (and women) personally. They certainly go beyond putting themselves in the seat of Moses, they put themselves in the place of Jesus Himself by asserting that you need association with them (anointed jw) for your salvation.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Jesus is specifically mediator to the covenant between between annointed and God it is a specific purpose and job.

    Hebrews 8:6
    But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

    you really need to research the mediator role and the new covenant arrangement.

    Reniaa

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