Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady 226 Replies latest jw friends

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  Nick!

  Connection confirmed!

  Just a few words to confirm that yesterday’s speaker at the 6screens conference is actually myself, and that this is my nickname on this forum, whilst my actual name is “Roberto di Stefano”.

  I was flattered to have been invited by Rick Fearon to speak at the conference today [it was 1 o’clock in the morning here in Europe]and happy to have shared briefly with those of you who were in attendance my personal experience.

  I hope that now that the experience has been told from the horse mouth, what I consider the value-less debated on the reasons of my disfellowshipping cease.

  I believe that it has more value, both, to us, ex-JW and to the Leadership of the WT, to understand why it is dangerous and counter-productive to start a witch-hunt against prominent ex-JW who only asked to be left alone!

  It is one thing to have an ex-JW posting anonymously on a forum where, despite the value of his participation, the impact on those who know him or have known him in his prominent role in the Organization are near to zero, and another thing is for the same person to come out in the open.
  Just think about Barbara’s contribution to the cause. Although Barbara’s intrinsic value was the same before and after she came out in the open, one has to agree that the damage she caused to this Organization has grown exponentially since she came out in the open.

  And this is true for anyone of us here on this forum and elsewhere who had a prominent role in the Organization.
  On one hand, because those who have known us had an excellent opinion of our life-long demonstration of, fairness, truthfulness, loyalty, and knowledge of the Bible and of the teachings of the Organization and a dedication and just can’t resist, on account of their astonishment, curiosity and incredulity, wanting to know what has made us make this unthinkable decision to abandon “God’s Organization”;
  On the other hand, because finally, being free to stand up for our position, we can engage in a larger and more powerful combat against this cult!

  There are obviously very good reasons why one makes the decision to remain anonymous, reasons which I don’t intend to discuss in this post. But when these disappear by themselves or, worse, when these are invalidated because of the stubborn persistence of the Organization to officially announce from the podium that you are not anymore a JW, then it is time to come out in the open and use your previous position and reputation as a prominent member of the Organization to fight back the same with all your capabilities and resources.

  Coming back to my own specific case, Yes, I registered as an anonymous user of this forum with Nick! as nickname over two years ago. I have not been very active on this forum because my time has been spent on an Italian and, partially, on a French forum, also using a nickname.

  Now that I have no reasons left to remain anonymous, I can finally put into operation the strategy I have long been working on during these last two years.
  This is another aspect to take into account. Knowing that one day or another you will have to come out in the open, start preparing your official exit NOW! And work on making it as destructive as possible for the Organization!

  I will tell you more on my website, one of these days, about my experience, my strategy and the way I have implemented it. For the time being, my website is basically in Italian and French, but the English section is being developed and the day it will be launched, I will announce it on this forum.

  The objective of my website is to collect and disseminate information on this destructive cult.
  The aim is to concentrate on collecting and translating a selection of important documentation and experiences in different languages. I have already asked and received the OK to translate material made available by Barbara Anderson, Randy Watters, Alan Feuerbacher and others, which are in the process of being translated into Italian and French. Translators in other languages of the same material are welcome!

  To those of you who can read Italian and French could already link to my website where, for the time being, the only information is the preparation and the program of Barbara’s Anderson visit to Europe this last month, which I have organized since November of last year as one of the activities planned in my strategy.
  The website is www.testimoni-di-gevoa.info , but I have also purchased the following domain names pointing to the same above website:
  - English www.jehovah-witnesses.info - French www.temoins-de-jehovah.info - Spanish www.testigos-de-jehova.info

  The first thing I will publish is a résumé of Barbara’s trip to Europe, with the YouTube links to the two conferences held in Italy on the Pedophilia and the danger to associate with JW, which I have translated live into Italian.

  More to come!

  – Roberto alias Nick!
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  Mickey mouse

  Nick has replied to this thread but his reply isn't showing yet. Responding in an attempt to get his post to display.
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  Mickey mouse

  Thank you Roberto. I admire ones like you and Barbara who are in a position to make a stand and a difference. I look forward to seeing the youtube links to the conference. My french isn't great but I've had a look at your site; it looks like a promising resource.

  On the thread discussing your participation in the conference call, there was some mention of the fine the WBTS are facing in France. Can you give more details about this, I was unable to listen to the conference call last night?

  Thanks again.
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  wannaexit

  Grazie Roberto aka Nick. I'll be checking those websites. Very interested in your story.
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  mouthy

  Was great listening to you Roberto
  Thanks alot for your info
  Keep up the good work
  Mouthy>>>>http://exjw.weebly.com/
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  chrisjoel

  Ciao Roberto di Stephano.

  I was wondering if you are familiar with Stephano di Giacobbe. A district overseer in Canada who recently 'became depressed' and left for Italy for still undisclosed reasons...
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  cognac

  Hello Roberto! Do you know when the JWs will have to go to court regarding the 50mil in fines? Is this something that will be settled shortly or in a few years?
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  cognac

  Here is what the org has to say regarding the tax (and they say it's 28mil.): http://www.jw-media.org/region/europe/france/english/religious_freedom/fra_e041004-report.htm

  Jehovah's Witnesses and the Taxation of Donations In France

  October 4, 2004

  Introduction

  On October 5, 2004, the Court of Cassation, which is the highest court in France, will make public a decision in the case of Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah v. Direction des Services Fiscaux. At issue is the right of this registered association to receive and to record contributions from members and from spontaneous supporters, without those contributions subsequently being taxed.

  Although the tax authorities expressly recognize the honest and non-profit nature of the Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah (ATJ) and could find no irregularities, they applied a tax law that is assessed at 60 percent of the value of the contributions. The amount involved in the controversy could exceed $28 million (U.S.). This includes a 60% tax on contributions used to support a vast humanitarian relief effort to Rwanda in 1994.

  As shown in this report, this taxation measure raises numerous objections relating to fundamental freedoms. It does not take into account the traditional practice of not taxing contributions made to not-for-profit associations.

  The Facts

  The Constitution of France provides for freedom of religion, and the government respects this right in practice. Strict antidiscrimination laws prohibit racially or religiously motivated attacks.

  The government of France declares a commitment to secularism and does not keep statistics on religious affiliation.

  In France, religious activities can be legally organized by creating associations provided for in a law dated July 1, 1901 (a general law regulating all associations whatever their purpose), or the law of December 9, 1905 (specifically designed for associations and buildings devoted exclusively to the practice of a religion).

  The main religions in France (Catholicism, Islam, Protestantism and Judaism) use associations regulated according to the 1901 law or the 1905 law in order to organize their activities. Under certain conditions, religious associations are granted certain tax advantages, such as exemption from property tax on buildings used for worship and from tax on bequests. Until now, none of the associations used by the main religions in France have been subjected to a tax on contributions.

  Some 250,000 persons attend the services of Jehovah's Witnesses. They meet in 1,000 places of worship, which have been granted tax-free status by the authorities in France. However, the religious contributions made to the national association Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah are being taxed. This situation is without parallel in France.

  The Background

  This taxation issue first arose after the 1996 Parliamentary Commission on Sects included Jehovah's Witnesses on their list of 173 cults. Although this parliamentary report does not have any legal value, cult-watch groups have extensively misused it in their fight against what they label "dangerous cults."

  The Commission made a general recommendation for tax authorities to harass minority religions that were on the list by means of tax audits. A tax audit was subsequently initiated against the Association Les Témoins de Jéhovah (ATJ).

  Although the tax authorities expressly recognized the honest and non-profit nature of ATJ and could find no irregularities, they applied a tax law Article 757-2 from the France Tax Code, against ATJ and claimed back taxes for four years (1993-1996) on donations received by the association.

  In order to calculate the amount, the tax authorities created a nominative list indicating the religious affiliation of all those who had made donations. Such a list is in contravention of privacy regulations and raises questions in connection with fundamental civil liberties.

  The tax was assessed at 60 percent of the value of the donation. This is the first time that a religion in France has had its religious offerings taxed, thus depriving it of the means of carrying out its worship. Consequently, for the first time in their 100-year history in France, Jehovah's Witnesses have been subjected to a tax on individual contributions.

  Jehovah's Witnesses took the matter to court. The Court of Nanterre dismissed the action on July 4, 2000, and affirmed the tax assessment on Jehovah's Witnesses. The Court of Appeal at Versailles upheld the lower court's decision on February 28, 2002, requiring Jehovah's Witnesses to pay. On May 13, 2003, Jehovah's Witnesses were officially "notified" of the court decision, and on June 23, 2003, Jehovah's Witnesses introduced their case before the Court of Cassation. On July 7, 2004, the Court of Cassation heard oral arguments by both parties.

  Precedent

  "The ruling by the Nanterre Court is highly questionable."
  —Bulletin des Associations et des Fondations, Éditions Francis Lefebvre, March 2002.

  Since 1996, several administrative courts in France have judged that the parliamentary report on sects had no legal basis or value. Nevertheless, the tax authorities have used the 1996 parliamentary report to justify investigating and taxing voluntary contributions made by Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Charitable and other nonprofit associations are deeply concerned by these rulings, which have been severely criticized in more than 34 articles published in reputed legal and fiscal journals in France. Commentaries by legal experts have consistently challenged the position taken by the courts.

  Jehovah's Witnesses and Taxes

  Jehovah's Witnesses are an internationally recognized Christian religion. They base their beliefs on the Bible. When Jesus Christ was questioned about paying taxes, he told his listeners: "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." (Mark 12:17) In their publications, public meetings and home Bible instruction, Jehovah's Witnesses encourage all to be prompt and honest in paying any taxes owed to a duly constituted authority. (Matthew 22:17–21; Romans 13:7) Over the last hundred years, Jehovah's Witnesses have earned a reputation worldwide for being honest in reporting their income and punctual in paying whatever taxes are legally imposed by the governments.

  In teaching their neighbors about the Bible, Jehovah's Witnesses encourage them to adopt this Scriptural viewpoint on paying taxes and being honest and good citizens.

  As a whole, Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy a good reputation worldwide as being honest, taxpaying citizens. For instance, the Spanish newspaper ElDiarioVasco commented on widespread tax evasion in Spain, but noted: "The only exception [is] Jehovah's Witnesses. When they buy or sell, the [property] value they declare is the absolute truth." Similarly, the U.S. newspaper San Francisco Examiner remarked some years ago: "You might regard [Jehovah's Witnesses] as model citizens. They pay taxes diligently, tend the sick, battle illiteracy."

  Conclusion

  Since the principles of fairness and nondiscrimination are basic human rights, in the matter of taxes Jehovah's Witnesses seek only to be treated like any other internationally known Christian religion.
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  sammielee24

  It was a great call - I have a lot of admiration for what Roberto is doing. I hope he is at some point, able to infiltrate the USA/Canada with some anti-cultic groups and start hammering at the governments of those countries to define a cult or cultic behavior. Perhaps once that happens, we can start to see governmental change in the allowances they make to cults dressed as religions - especially as it relates to baptism before adulthood and so on. Great call! sammieswife.
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  cognac

  Ok, I think this is why in some places it says 28mil and other places 50mil. Because it started out at 28mil but because of penalties and interest, it is now at 50mil. It seems like the longer they don't pay it, the more they are going to owe. See http://www.watchtowernews.org/france.htm\

  Jehovah's Witnesses in France

  France has ruled that the Jehovah's Witnesses faith is not a religion and thus it owes $50 million in back taxes. The French Tax Authority ruled the Witnesses ineligible for a church exemption and gave the group a 60% tax rate, which amounts to $25 million, which was doubled by penalties and interest. A lien was put on all Jehovah's Witnesses property in France. ...The group has been criticized in recent years by anti-sect organizations. It has 220,000 members in France and has done mission work since 1900. ..."Their intent seems to be to break us financially and stop our work in France," said Judah Schroeder of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, based in New York. The tax decision was made in May after an audit of donations. Religious freedom advocates from the Witnesses and other groups in 15 European nations planned to meet in Paris to appeal the action and warn against a trend they say threatens minority religions. ...The Jehovah's Witnesses claims 15 million members, mostly outside North America and Europe. Members believe in the imminent return of Christ and are active proselytizers. They withhold allegiance from all earthly authorities, and become conscientious objectors from military service. Many went to Nazi death camps in Germany for not joining Hitler's army. Others were deported from Nazi-occupied France.