Are we in Jesus's Reign?

by ballistic 38 Replies latest jw friends

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  607BCisAbigLIE

  YouKnow:

  let me put it to you this way: when WTS teachings, compared to real evidence doesnt pass the test of being the Truth (WTS teachings), is still called the Truth (WTS teachings), it is hypocrisy.
  

  In the minds of our apostate enemies it is either all or nothing. That is to say: Satan would have the incredulous mind believe that if certain aspects of our teaching are in error then that means that we are not Jehovah's people

  Certain aspects? open your eyes man!! there's a lot more than you think. Of course, some are maybe questionable, but some are very well documented and attested. Get information that is not filtered through the WT litterature. Go and verify all those quotes taken from profane books that invades WT litterature: many are misquoted out of their real context only to trick your mind that the person who is quoted say the same thing as the Organization's teaching.
  I wont argue anymore 'cause Ithink it will be a waste of time unless you are an openminded soul, although it is oubviuos here that you are not.

  Sorry for that post YouKnow, I din't meant no harm. All I want to say to you however, that is your opinion, and i should respect it. But don't call us apostate. Maybe we are maybe we aren't. ONLY GOD Has the right to judge. If you open your eyes, you will see that a lot of people, if not the majority, are very good people.

  Beside, what is to believe in God, if it is without love for anyone? I mean true love, not the one conducted by prozelitizing?
• 

  607BCisAbigLIE

  YouKnow:

  BTW, the only One that interceeds between God and mankind, is Jesus, our Lord, Christ and Saviour. He DOESN'T need ANY organization on earth to operate under God's will; nowhere in the Bible you'll see that an earthly organization was ever needed by God to accomplish
  His will.
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  Erich

  607BCisAbigLIE wrote:
  
  

  ...Lord, Christ and Saviour. He DOESN'T need ANY organization on earth to operate under God's will; nowhere in the Bible you'll see that an earthly organization was ever needed by God to accomplish
  His will...

  
  
  Nonsense. How could Jesus' instruction in Mat.27:19 become fulfilled without having an earthly organization?
  
  Another matter is whether such an org is necessary for all times. In future, when the commendments have been fulfilled - and when we live in a new and righteous world system with kind and perfect people - there'd be certainly no need for organization then ...
  
  YouKnow writes:
  
  

  ..when once the Unvieling occurs, it will be after Jehovah's angels purge the organization of lawless and faithless individuals..

  
  
  I am JW since 1984, and I agree with most of your conclusions. But say: Should that happen in a manner as told by "scully" in
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17974&site=3
  
  YouKnow:
  If JW's do not treat their brothers and sisters in the way YHVH/JHWH had revealed in the Holy Bible, he doesn't make ANY difference between "wordly" and "spiritual" people. Look at what had happened with Israel when they ignored HIS commendments... And besides, read: Romans 2:1,2
• 

  You Know

  To #607

  let me put it to you this way: when WTS teachings, compared to real evidence doesnt pass the test of being the Truth (WTS teachings), is still called the Truth (WTS teachings), it is hypocrisy.

  Not necessarily. What about the example I gave of the apostles? They had very strong opinions about what the Messiah was and wasn't supposed to do and when he was supposed to take his kingdom. They were wrong about everything. Jesus repeatedly rebuked them. Did that make them hypocrites? No, of course not. They were simply in error and Christ eventually corrected them. That's really the situation that the Society is in. Of course, there are hypocrites within the organization, but I don't see the organization as a whole being judged by Jehovah with that measure.

  Certain aspects? open your eyes man!! there's a lot more than you think.

  And just what do you assume I am unaware of? Let me assure you that I am throughly familiar with the apostate movement's accusations against us, knowing as I do that they are mere echo's of our demonic accuser. Not to say that they are entirely false. They're not. Except the conclusions you arrive at are attained by false reasoning. So, while the acusations filed against us may be true that doesn't necessarily mean that they have any legitimacy as far as the ultimate Judge is concerned. Remember, please, that Jehovah is yet to take up the legal case of his people. So, the apostate's guilty verdict is not God's rendering.

  Actually, it has been my observation that apostates are largely ignorant of the exact nature of the Society's error from Jehovah God's standpoint. In other words: Jehovah does indeed have issues with his people; but, Jehovah has not merely taken up the reproach of the apostate lynch mob. Jehovah's accusations are pre-recorded in Scripture and are legally binding upon us due to our covenant relationship with him, and I am quite certain that not one of you are literate enough to read them. But, nonetheless, that is the true measure with which we will be measured and the real judgment that we eventually will be judged with; not the mouthings of any evil slave and his apostate goon squad.

  nowhere in the Bible you'll see that an earthly organization was ever needed by God to accomplish His will.

  Have you ever read the Bible? What do you think the nation of Israel was or the congregation Christ instituted? They were organizations that accomplished Jehovah's will. / You Know
• 

  You Know

  ERICH:

  If JW's do not treat their brothers and sisters in the way YHVH/JHWH had revealed in the Holy Bible, he doesn't make ANY difference between "wordly" and "spiritual" people.

  That's not entirely true. Those who are teachers actually receive a heavier judgment. And of course, Christ said that those who stumble his little ones it would be better for them if a millstone were hung around their necks and they plunged into the open sea. There is no question that Jehovah is going to hold his people accountable. Christ also assured us that we will be called to account for every word out of our mouths. Anyone who imagines otherwise is not even in the truth. / You Know
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  Erich

  YouKnow, regarding "scully" :
  

  ..Those who are teachers actually receive a heavier judgment. And of course, Christ said that those who stumble his little ones it would be better for them if a millstone were hung around their necks and they plunged into the open sea.

  
  
  That's quite right, and for this reason, let 'm begin to act. I hope, there AS SOON AS possible shall start an investigation regarding this matter. The whole brotherhood of JW's (worldwide) should become informed about the proceed of this investigation; continually, weekly. Transparently, fully. No secretivenesses, please. They can use the Internet for continued investigations. There are thousands of similar cases to be investigated. That process must take place to rehabilitate YHVH/JHWH fully in the eyes of the whole mankind.
  
  Note: that is no cynicism.
• 

  detective

  I've always found the 1914 teaching somewhat confusing. According to scripture: after Jesus was crucified, was he not resurrected? After he was resurrected, did he not go to heaven where he was enthroned? If he didn't go to heaven and get enthroned, where has he been since the first century? And his return: according to scripture when in relation to armageddon was he to return? Was it before armageddon at the beginning of the great trib? Was it in the middle of the end of times? Or was it at the END of the end of times? I won't even go into the how "all eyes will see" is suddenly figurative!
  But I wouldn't mind some answers to my questions as it could aid in my understanding of this strange interpretation of 1914.
• 

  hillary_step

  YK,

  I truly admire your desire to show loyalty to God and arguably to his Organization.

  The problem is that the only means that you have at your disposal to display this loyalty in an way that is remotely understandable to those looking in, has been to start you own parallel religion, complete with its own prophetic interpretations and justifications.

  Now, I cannot say that I blame you as I know many, many average JW’s who when trying to rationalize the excesses of the WTS have reached similar conclusions to yourself. In fact I questioned one JW I recently, whom I have great respect for, and who has concluded that the "Organization’ is living in a time of judgment, and she made an interesting comment. She stated rather desperately, ‘What else can I believe!’. The alternatives were just too emotionally devastating for her to think about.

  YK, given that you are likely one of a very small group on this planet that feels that the scriptural applications that you place on recent events within the WTS are to be fulfilled in the way you frequently proclaim, you must also surely entertain the possibility that you are incorrect.

  Many on this Board would not accept, perhaps not even understand your prophetic inclinations. What would you have them do, presented as they have been by the same evidence of WTS corruption and deceitfulness that you seek to explain away by scriptural means?

  You rather cunningly made an allusion in your earlier note to the end that the early Christians had false expectations and made many mistakes, and of course you are again correct in this statement. Where you begin to fail in your argument is that you state that Christ had to attend to, and realign their thinking, but what you fail to mention is how he did this.

  Yes, he used human agencies to sort out the failings of his people, as he did many times in the past. For example, was Jeremiah an ‘unclean dog’ for publicly declaring the failings of Gods people, or a man filled with honor and courage? When Paul rose from Antioch and went to Jerusalem, under his usual head of steam to confront the Jewish Christians with the concept of undeserved kindness, was he being an ‘apostate Bozo’, or a man filled with Spirit? He most certainly would be disfellowshipped as an apostate were he to try this in an average KH today.

  Remember YK, where you see ‘unclean dogs’ and ‘apostate Bozo’s’, God may see his stumbled little sheep.

  Best regards -- HS
• 

  AGuest

  SIGH!

  YOU KNOW says:

  Of course, there are hypocrites within the organization, but I don't see the organization as a whole being judged by Jehovah with that measure.

  However, my LORD said: "Beware the leaven of the Pharisees... which is HYPOCRISY..." and "a LITTLE leaven... FERMENTS THE WHOLE LUMP."

  ERICH says:

  Nonsense. How could Jesus' instruction in Mat.27:19 become fulfilled without having an earthly organization?

  Now, I am THINKING that dear Erich meant Matt. 28:19, and to that reply that my LORD said:

  "My kingdom of NO part of this world."

  ... as well as...

  "The scribes (copiers of law) and Pharisees (self-appointed translators of law) have seated THEMSELVES in the seat of Moses... Neither be called leaders, for YOUR leader is one..."

  and... "The doorkeeper opens to this one and the sheep listen to HIS voice, and he call his own sheep out. When he has got all his own out, HE goes before them, and the sheep follow HIM, because THEY KNOW HIS VOICE. A stranger they will by NO means follow but will FLEE from him, because they do not KNOW the voice of strangers. MY sheep listen to MY voice, and I know THEM... and THEY... follow ME."

  In addition, there are Paul's reported words that:

  "Not that we are master's OVER YOUR FAITH..."

  ... as well as the fact that the congregations met in HOMES...

  and direct dear Erich to read the Book of the Acts of the Apostles and show where at any point therein, there was a organization... of any type. Indeed, even the 'circumcision' matter was decided upon in THIS way:

  1. James made the decision
  2. Older men AND entire congregation considered it
  3. ENTIRE congregation sent Paul and Barnabas out

  Why a letter from the 'older men'? Because under the OLD systems of things, the older men were consulted to make decisions. Since the it was the OLDER men who was teaching 'against' the NEW way anyway (THEY were trying to put men of the nations under the OLD Covenant by telling them that they HAD to get circumcised... even though Peter had once disputed it with them and now Paul and Barnabas were...), the people would have to know that such older men CONCURRED with the decision of the holy spirit that circumcision of the flesh was not necessary.

  In light, then, of the fact that my Lord's kingdom is NO part of THIS world, and that the TRUE and LAST 'visible' representation of God [the WTBTS says "the Lord"] on earth was the TEMPLE AT JERUSALEM, and the fact that such temple 'made with hands' was replaced a temple of 'living stones', the builder and maker of which is GOD... by means of Christ... why in the WORLD would God and/or Christ need ANYTHING 'earthly' to 'represent' Him/them?

  Have you not read and can you not hear and GET THE SENSE of what is written at Philippians 3:19?

  If you continue, dear ones, with your 'minds upon things on EARTH,' including eternal life in the FLESH... you will be misled, as you are being misled. For as my Lord said:

  "THE FLESH... IS OF NO USE AT ALL."

  ('Earthling man'... always 'overstepping the commandments of God with the traditions and doctrines... of men.')

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  lv4fer

  So, if Jesus began his rule in 1914 and he has a millenial reign (1000 years) than he has already used up 87 years, what a waste! Or am I messed up or confused. I am a witness and don't understand it. So like is there a different rule other than the 1000 year reign. His rule in heaven and then a different rule over the earth. Please show me some scriptures to explain this.