Ephesians 4:11-16 is germane regarding "flipflops" and "refinements":— 11 And he [the Christ] gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers [Or, "missionaries." Greek, eu·ag·ge·li·stas´; Latin, e·van·ge·li´stas.], some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment [Or, "to the putting into proper alignment."] of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ, 13 until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ; 14 in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error. 15 But speaking the truth [Or, "But being truthful."], let us by lovegrow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ. 16 From him all the body, by being harmoniously joined together and being made to cooperate [Literally, being made to go together."] through every joint that gives what is needed, according to the functioning of each respective member in due measure, makes for the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
where do the refinements come from?, and why do you answer thus?
by Spike Tassel 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AK - Jeff
I recall one nasty set of 'refinements', since Spike has named none.
The issue of 'should a woman scream if raped' took on serious meaning when the WTS decided that they would just label a non-screaming rape victim, a fornicatrix, and disfellowship her. The Watchtower magazine debated with itself over this for three decades [at least], changing positions and shades of understanding - including complete flip-flops and total disregard for the reality of this crime.
Anyway, that 'refinement' went like this:
Yes, Rape is fornication/a woman would be required to scream/resist
WT 1/15/64 p.63;
WT 6/1/68 p.347
No, Rape is not fornication/a woman would not be required to scream/resist if in her best interest
1969, 1971 Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1371+, 601
Yes, Rape is fornication/a woman would be required to scream/resist
Awake! 3/8/74 p.14
No, Rape is not fornication/a woman would not be required to scream/resist if in her best interest
Awake! 7/8/80 p.5,6
Yes, Rape is fornication/a woman would be required to scream/resist
WT 10/15/80 p.7
No, Rape is not fornication/a woman would not be required to scream/resist if in her best interest
WT 3/15/83 p.30
Yes, Rape is fornication/a woman would be required to scream/resist
Awake! 2/22/84 p.2
No, Rape is not fornication/a woman would not be required to scream/resist if in her best interest
Awake! 6/8/84 p.28
Yes, Rape is fornication/a woman would be required to scream/resist
Awake! 5/22/86 p.23
No, Rape is not fornication/a woman would not be required to scream/resist if in her best interest
Awake! 3/8/93 p.5
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AK - Jeff
Apparently, Jehovah is confused as to where to come down on this sort of complicated matter.
Jeff
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isaacaustin
Spike, the very verses you spoke of in EPH warn us not to be tossed about by so-called refinements. My suggestion to you, do not try to prooftext your baseless assertions. The verses you use generally prove the opposite.
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JWoods
In the automotive industry, this stuff would be called a recall. It is viewed as a serious embarrassment to the engineers responsible for the faulty design.
In the aircraft industry, it would likely result in the airplane involved being declared not airworthy. (Unless, I guess, you are Airbus).
I sense a sort of apology going down here for the WTBTS "changing their minds" dozens of times over the past century.
The incredible nature of that apology seems to be - well, Jehovah changes his mind every so often too...so it is ok for the society.
Unbelievable... tantamount to saying that your religion can be a flip-flopping totalitarian regime, because your God is like that too!
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AK - Jeff
Spot on James.
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PSacramento
God never changed his mind, he knew exactly what was gonna happen and why, if we don't accept that then God is faulty and as such ALL his Word is called into question.
People on they other hand are very faulty and no more so than when they go beyong what is plainly stated in scripture by creating doctrines based on interpretations, just so they can be different and unique and, inevitably, WRONG.
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Spike Tassel
which is many of us stay put, in the camp of Jehovah's Witnesses, "no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error." We let our Bible-trained conscience be our guide, come what may. The WT organization does give a lot to listen to, to read, and thus, to think about. But, we're all given free will, to decide, hopefully, in a balanced way. As I've said before, I'll stay faithfully attending, regardless of how any JC may rule, and when Armageddon's done and I'm still attending, there will be no need to wonder where I stand on the issue of Universal Sovereignty.
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villabolo
Spike, why don't you just answer AK-Jeff's comment about the victims of rape and how your organization treats them? Or perhaps you are too intimidated by the substance of it.
villabolo
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AK - Jeff
We let our Bible-trained conscience be our guide, come what may.
Surely you jest, Tassel. Jw's are not allowed to do this, and you know it! You live under the giant Governing Body conscience umbrella - Jw's wouldn't know a personal conscience if they had one bite them in the ass. Sorry, but true.
My question is why you start a thread about 'refinements' and when serious questions/thoughts about the matter are suggested you ignore and answer with your silly comments that miss the entire point, or just post some scripture to hightlight your personal self-ingratiation?
Jeff