Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice 298 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BizzyBee

  Hey guys, you think it's only the adverage citizen that is paranoid about Obamacare?

  Yiz -

  Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't your wife the recipient of an inordinate amount of government healthcare every month? All well and good, but why wouldn't you be supporting this healthcare reform bill, not only for your wife and yourself, but to extend those benefits to others who are unable to afford just minimal health insurance, nevermind the extraordinary benefits that come with major health expenses?

  Just wondering.
• 

  beksbks

  JO, I think PEC just summed it up nicely.
• 

  journey-on

  I'm so misunderstood.
• 

  I quit!

  "What you lack, sammieswife, is the ability to know the soul of our country and if you think all Americans are going to buy into nationalized or socialized across-the-board universal healthcare without gagging and getting sick to our stomachs, you have another thing coming."

  If your are gagging and getting sick it is because of the crock of s**t people like Rush Limbaugh have been feeding you about health care reform. The greatest nation of givers bit comes right out of Rush's play book. In reality if someone was that into giving they would be gagging over the idea of someone having their medical needs care of. The people that stand to lose the most over health care reform are the insurance companys. They are spending millions of dollars trying to make the American people afraid of health care reform. Why? Because if it is reformed they won't be able to make a profit from denying treatment to sick people. They themselves are terrified that the public will finally realize that are not needed and that they are nothing more than parasites who make fortunes off of people's illness. The less they do for you the greater their pay checks. How can anyone expect a health care system to work who's finanial success is based on how much health care they can deny someone. Well that is what we have here and it is sad to see this system it being championed by those who it will someday need it and it won't be there for them.
• 

  monkeyman

  beksbks Dont get me wrong, I'm not a lover of insurance companies and I'm not really sure of a solution. But you cant say there is not enough competition out there among insurance companies. There's hundreds of them. And they have to make a profit or die as some do. The government is not fair competition since they dont have to make a profit. They will just print more money or generate more funds through taxation or some other government means.

  If you were in business, any business, would you like the government as your competition? I dont think so.

  Also, as far as regulations go, insurance is one of the most regulated industries in the US. It is done through each state.

  I was impressed with the group that I posted their website for since they have addressed some of the issues that are not being addressed by current insurance companies. Here are some of them...

  1. Pre existing conditions - insurance companies in some states (not all) dont have to take them. This is unfair to people who are sick. The way they deal with it is a managed care system. It works. (No need for government interference here)

  2. Customer compliance - its known that one of the biggest expenses for insurers is patient non compliance. Meaning, people with high blood pressure dont take their meds, or obese people arent addressing their weight problem, or smokers wont quit. This group addresses that too. They call people once a month to make sure they are taking their meds properly. They give them FREE weight loss programs and smoking cessation devices. If people are obstinate and dont make any effort to comply, they can LOSE their benefits.

  3. Digitizing medical records- the Obama adm. has recently discovered one other major expense for insurance companies is paying for medical records to be copied and mailed to them. Doctors are paid at least $75 every time a person requests insurance. This is ridiculous in our high tech era when records can be digitized and emailed at virtually no cost. These guys are already doing that.

  4. Managing costs - many times one blood draw is taken but seven or eight tests are done. Many times the draw, even tho it was done once it is charged seven or eight times to inflate the bill. Also, tests like MRI or PET scans are never really shopped around. The patient just goes wherever the doctor says to go. This group shops around and will send you to the place that will do it for the best price. You may like a particular doctor over another, but an MRI is an MRI no matter where you go. These guys are doing that too.

  In some states, like Massachusetts, health insurance is mandatory. It's also guaranteed issued. Has that solved the problem? NO. 40% of the people there are still uninsured just like the rest of the country. WHY? People Cant afford it. Then they have to pay a fine every year for not having it. Not a very good solution in my opinion.
• 

  sammielee24

  JO - you presume to speak for milllions of Americans - and most likely you think that you presume to speak for most Americans however, it is apparent to me and everyone else that you do not. It is not me that doesn't understand and this is absolutely nothing to do with being an American - it has everything to do with issues that you have with people using govenrment programs and/or wanting government options in a healthcare plan that they are willing to buy into out of their own money. You - don't get it. Not me.

  On one hand you swat away a list of government programs and say how wise people are to use them and then bring up one issue by one person who you felt was being selfish and greedy by commenting on the amount of 'free' money she got from you the taxpayer. I can understand you being ticked at one woman and one comment, but really, what does a public option have to do with that? What don't you get - people want to buy into it - with their money - they aren't coming up to you and asking for something free - they are willing to pay. So what is it you don't like? This has nothing to do with being American - it has to do with being shallow and self serving at the expense of lives of thousands of people in this country. You think that makes you a great American or that really puts you in a position to speak on behalf of any American?

  Again, I ask what the real issue is behind all of this. I understand Burns issues pretty clearly and that's fine - but you keep hiding behind Americanisms...anyone not born an American can't understand. People around the world understand what is illogical and ruinous. I mean, the way you keep spouting nonsense here about being American as the reason not to have a government option for healthcare insurance makes no sense - you don't want it because it's the American way?

  So - if someone had a crap sandwich full of e-coli for you to eat - and if Americans had been eating those crap sandwiches for years - are you telling me you'd eat the crap sandwich filled with e-coli, knowing there was a 98% chance you'd be dead in a day - just because it's the American thing to do?

  What does that say about your level of intelligence let alone your survival. Think about it. You are starting to sound foolish here - sammieswife.
• 

  Mary

  Big Tex said: Americans have a long history of mistrusting the government and they hate to pay taxes.

  I think this just about sums it up. Americans are taught from birth to have an almost parnoid fear of the government taking control of anything, even when it would be to their benefit. This goes all the way back to the Revolutionary War when they broke from England due to high taxes and a government trying to impose their will on them.

  Everyone complains about their government, but alot of Americans seem to be under the idea that if you have any social networks instead of capitalism, then it's going to turn you into a bunch of Commie Bastards where you have no say in anything. And that simply isn't true.

  In fact, in many ways, the American healthcare system---they way it's currently set up, is far more "socialized" than what ours is. If you're an American and have private health care, it apparently only covers certain hospitals, certain doctors, and certain procedures (that the assholes in charge can deny you at any time). In addition to the astronomical monthly fees, you've got huge deductions and then co-payments on top of that. Plus, if you've ever had a serious illness and then lose your job and your insurance, you're screwed because no one will insure you after that.

  Our system isn't perfect, but you can chose your own doctor, and if you need surgery, you can chose where you want to have it. If you're sent to a Specialist and they're incompetent, you go to another one. If a family member has a heart attack or a stroke, you call 9-11 and the ambulance takes you to the nearest hospital or the hospital that has the best facilities for the situation. Your OHIP card is good for any hospital, doctors' office, Urgent Care Clinic, or Specialist office. You don't worry about co-payments or deductables. Yes, your taxes are higher, but you're far better off paying higher taxes and have coverage for everyone, no matter if they have a 'pre-existing condition'. In fact, the premiums that Americans pay every month on their heathcare insurance, is already like a tax: your premiums pay for other people to have surgeries, or doctors' visits or simply to line the pockets of executives. The only difference with that and paying a state tax is that at least with the state tax, everyone would be covered.

  How would Americans like it if there were no public school system? Only private schools for the elite were available and you had to pay astronomical fees every month to give your child something basic, like a decent education. I can't see too many Americans supporting a system like that, yet that is essentially what your healthcare system is set up like.

  The bottom line is that I think Americans would generally like universal health care, but they don't want to pay more taxes or have the government involved. And unfortunately, that's the only way you're ever going to see it happen.
• 

  DaCheech

  i also agree with monkeyman.

  ALOT OF DISEASES ARE THE PATIENTS FAULT!

  americans as a country are very very obese!

  how many educational films must we watch on the dangers of smoking?

  high blood pressure? look at the foods we gobble down?

  I have people in my family with problems, but every meal we prepare is done with thought!

  people keep on thinking there is a "miracle drug" or the "doctor solution", we are part of our solution
• 

  sammielee24

  I think some of is taxes but a very large part of it is the interference and impact of the religious right in government.

  You have a very large lunatic fringe that are rabid anti abortionists and you may have noticed that in the USA elections, religion is a major factor in who gets elected and who runs. Sex and all aspects of it get blown up in the election debates - Palin coming out for abstinence only and everyone from a possible Judge to a Senator having their view on abortion made public. They are obsessed about it.

  You don't hear that sort of stuff in a lot of countries.

  So, you have that same lunatic fringe that oppose gay marriage and abortion, who come out now and say that they are against a government option for health care because they are adamantly opposed to having their tax dollars go toward the healthcare of some lazy ass woman who had the moral aptitude of a gnat and got herself knocked up and now is too selfish to have the baby - get an abortion. You have to understand as well that many of that group are also opposed to some forms of birth control and so a government option might allow for that as well. That is a major underlying issue that the 'true Americans' are pushing and it doesn't matter to them if you die because you don't have healthcare, they stopped the woman next to you from having an abortion by opposing your choice for healthcare.

  So while taxes are an issue for some, for way too many, it's nothing but a smokescreen to make you believe that they don't have another hidden agenda. Why else are there people who are users of Medicare and Medicaid, government issued healthcare, so opposed? You've got a lot of users of government funds now in all sorts of ways, who aren't going to see their taxes rise but who object to what they see as a liberal point of view that just might allow people to use the same system for things that they don't approve of. sammieswife.
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  DaCheech

  mary, many ny/nj people are paying $600 to $1600 a month for health insurance, if the goverment can promise me better for the same... i'm for it!

  but you outsiders don't understand we pay:

  property taxes:3k to 18k a year

  state taxes

  goverment taxes

  social security tax

  unemployment insurance tax

  taxes on gas, cigarettes, and here in jersey we pay 7% sales tax, including a used car that has been taxed 3 times in it's life!