Why division of church & state, Why muslim theocracies?

by Satanus 13 Replies latest social current

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Because, when you move christianity from a mental faith exercise, to govt and politics, it doesn't work. The tug of way that started early, between the pope and the emperor showed that. The descent into the dark ages also showed that. Christianity is fraught w internal conflicts, inconsistencies and lacunae. Islam however, while it may actually be a worse religion than christianity, is mush more coherent. Thus, it's rules, laws and tennets can be put into practice in every day life and on the world stage. Discuss this. I gotta go to work.

    S

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog
    Because, when you move christianity from a mental faith exercise, to govt and politics, it doesn't work. The tug of way that started early, between the pope and the emperor showed that.

    Somebody better tell emperor/president Obama that.

    Obama to preach his healthcare message to religious leaders

    From: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-religion19-2009aug19,0,1755738.story?track=rss

    Obama is scheduled to address more than 1,000 religious figures in two conference calls, allowing him to extend his message to legions of faithful in the pews.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Isn't obama a christian muslim;)) They are predicting that islam will grow a lot in europe.

    S

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Christianity was born under the Roman empire, with little or no opportunity, let alone necessity, to organise itself politically. Its political irresponsibility is the flip side of its values, ideals and beauty (cf. the Sermon on the Mount). And I don't mean that pejoratively: I am quite fond of this aspect of Christianity.

    Otoh, Islam had to fight for its existence and rule (at least cities) from its very beginning. It is politically responsible by nature and pretty good at that... by 7th-century standards.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Nark

    I've seen on the news, where they've been trying to take France back to the 7th-century. How is that going?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    DD, I think you're reading the wrong 'news' (but I have long given up trying to correct the American view of Europe on this sort of topics, it's hopeless). The French Republic does not acknowledge "communities" as such (much less so than the US of A), the same (secular) law applies to all, it has even become very restrictive of religious-ethnical "signs" in public space (e.g. Muslim girls / women are not allowed to wear the hijab headscarf in schools or public agencies). There may have been some fringe "lobbying" in that direction, but it is ultra-minoritary even in the Muslim population (most of which would definitely not want of shari'a law), and generally lobbying has very little weight on public policies as compared with the US (or even UK) system.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    How about the riots, a year or so back? We saw cars being burned and so forth.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    LOL. Riots is a big word for what really happened, quite sporadically in fact except for a couple of weeks a few years ago; car burning otoh is a rather widespread youth game in the poorest suburbs, especially on special occasions (and it helps keeping the automobile industry afloat, with the help of insurance companies). Neither has anything to do with Islam specifically, and certainly not with sharia law!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Thankyou, nark

    Conclusion: both christianity and islam are products of their environments, or at least their beginnings heavily influenced by their environments.

    Taking another step back in time, toward the root of both these religions. Ot judaism is a slightly different story. It too, had the division between church and state, although it dreamt about a priest king, who would fill both offices. It never attained that, obviously, because it didn't not work. The dream is still alive however, both among some jewish sects and among some christians and some cults like jws. For the christians, they think that jesus will rule as king and priest. The jewish sects expect another messiah king priest.

    For ot jews, the ot laws worked within the bounds of their nation. However, since it was basically a closed system, ie, open only to blood jews, there were different rules that would be applied to the gentiles. Some goyem were accepted as slaves. Some young girls were accepted as breeders. Most, however were seen as enemies and were killed, or disposessed if possible. The larger nations were handled through manipulation. Integration was not an option. Note 'WICKED' king ahab, because of his friendliness towards gentile nations. Perhaps, zenaphobia or zenohatred was what prevented the jews from ever forming an empire, while other nations succeeded. Living under their yoke would not have been a pleasant thing. Even today, the palestinians are an example of that yoke.

    S

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Off, to work, again...

    S

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