JW's Value Position & Appearances over Displaying God's Qualities

by flipper 37 Replies latest jw friends

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  cantleave

  Flipper. I attended all the meetings, pioneered at least twice a year, studied hard and can deliver a pretty good platform assignment. I was appointed an MS in my mid 20's (I went to college, so my progression in the congo was delayed), I was an Elder by my early thirties. I never expected to be an Elder but was SEEN to be doing all the right things so it shouldn't have been a surprise. When I was asked if I wanted to serve, I was delighted. The only person who seemed disappointed / surprised was my older Brother who really wanted the position from a very young age and got there at 27 (he was an MS at 19).

  I really did see my appointment as a way of helping others, unfortunately there were a minority who saw the position as a power trip. I tend to be quite blunt when I percieve an injustice and have had some big differences of opinion with a brother, who seem to show nepatism (when I am further down the line with my fade and I reveal all). When problems occur with BOE all parties seem to forget the "fruitage of the spirit", egos get involved and pride kicks in.

  The point is, I was never asked what my relationship with Jehovah was like, by doing the right things it was assumed I had a strong one. I have done so much reading in the last couple of months I don't even know if I believe in God anymore, Richard Dawkins makes for a stronger argument than any preacher I have heard. ...........Sorry I am rambling, so i'll stop.
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  Heaven

  In my life I have seen enough strange and outright unChristian behaviour among JWs to know that this group of people has a lot of problems and that they certainly are not 'God's Organization'.

  The pedophile in my parents' congregation helped them move once and was throwing their furniture and items around without any care. This struck me as very odd behaviour and not becoming of someone in "God's Organization". (I didn't know the guy was a pedophile at the time ... I found out many years later. I was creeped out!). I think he had some major anger issues. He sure acted like he didn't want to be there.

  At a non-JW family funeral, my bro and I are standing with my father after the minister has given his talk. My father looks at the 2 of us and says with contempt and a huge helping of self-righteousness "I know way more about the Bible than that guy. I could run rings around him!" My brother looks at him and says "Yep. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one." And he walks away. My brother doesn't have any patience with the JW crap. I didn't say anything. I felt my brother nailed it.

  I have other examples but I thought those 2 illustrated behaviour unbecoming of a people who feel they are so clean and wholesome that they are above 'worldly' people. When you 'keep up appearances' it is not a true behaviour and thus, these tend to slip and a glimpse behind the facade reveals a reality of issues/problems.
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  flipper

  CANTLEAVE- I hear what you are saying about the egos and pride getting involved in skirmishes in elders meetings. Although I was never an elder ( dad has been for 55 years ) I was a MS for 6 years and was very involved in watching the politics being played out in elderland. I was used almost like an elder as I was given public talk assignments, assembly parts, etc. so I saw things going on behind the scenes that normal publishers might not have eyewitnessed. I never would have lasted as an elder because they would have kicked me off from being one as I have a huge justice streak. I would have come to blows with my fellow elders if they tried pulling $hit on the brothers and sisters. But hey- maybe I would have left the organization sooner, eh ? Silver lining to every cloud. Hang in there Cantleave . You'll make the right move sometime. Don't worry whether you believe in God or not- you are still a good person even if he doesn't exist. You can still do good for others.

  HEAVEN- I think all pedophiles and child molesters should be castrated and hung upside down to bleed in public. It's disgusting what these pervs get away with. And yes, I think many of them have anger issues . Your brother handled that funeral scene very well and honestly. Your dad just showed why so many JW's are arrogant thinking themselves better than everyone else. It's very annoying. Sorry you had to witness that
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  OnTheWayOut

  I climbed the position-ladder pretty quick. But shortly after attaining the elder title, I moved to Chicago.

  I was in a cong. that had posted the reading and microphone assignments for several months ahead of time, so being new I just went to the meetings without any actual assignments.

  This elder gave a talk one sunday. I could tell he thought it was important to have "position" in the congregation. I really did not like that kind of attitude so I almost managed to avoid him. He shook hands after the meeting and eventually got to mine. He didn't waste time on small talk and friendly courteous chit chat. Oh no. He started right in with, "Are you on the servant body here?" [NO.] "How long have you been serving Jehovah?" [7 years] "You are not one of the ministerial servants or elders?" [NO.] "Do you have other privileges like Watchtower reader?" [No.] "Microphone handler?" [No.] "Well brother, you reach out and get there."

  He moved on to someone more important than me. Good riddance. I was appointed elder a short time later and he was surprised when I visited his hall and gave a talk. I think he thought he had something to do with my moving up so fast. What a joke.
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  flipper

  OTWO- It always was ridiculous to see elders being friendly with brothers reaching out- but ignoring ones who didn't. I was always closer to elders who that - when you walked into a kingdom hall, you couldn't tell they were elders at all ! They just acted like normal guys, normal publishers. Did not have any air of pretense about them. Were easy to get to know and be around. I gravitated more towards those elders than ones who walked around like they had a stick up their butt . Like a banty rooster or something
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  wantarevolution

  I was appointed an MS at 20, and turned it down - purely to make a point. By then I was a year into College and was starting to see through things, though i still played the game.

  I was blunt with the elders, and said that I was having a hard time with certain things, and would feel hypocritical if I was on the platform teaching something i wasn't so sure about. The elder's reaction? " You know you have 1 shot at this, if you turn it down, it will follow you - suck what ever you're feeling up, and eventually it will all make sense to you".

  He was right about one thing, it did follow me - when I moved here, I got a shepherding visit after they recieved my letter - asking me what my "spiritual problems" were - by then I was actually "doing OK" and was enjoying being a pleb - however they said if i didn't want a position, i must be "unspiritual and unloving towards my brothers". It even got the point when my wife and I were getting married that an elder pulled her aside and said "you know he refused an appointment.." I knew right then, i was never going to play the game again.
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  flipper

  WANTAREVOLUTION- Wow . What an experience by you. So the elders told you " eventually it will all make sense to you " ? Incredible. What an idiot form of reasoning on their part to lure you into becoming an MS. Guess we could all drink kool-aid and when we don't wake up- " eventually it will makes sense to us. " Jeez. So they even tried warning your wife about you because you did not want to reach out for the MS position ? Bastards. They are so nosy and intrusive into people's personal lives. I'm glad you went to school - I hoped it worked out good for you ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  Jadeen

  I remember at book study one night- at a sister's home- I took my sandals off at the door, sat down in the living room, and a couple of women were all over me. Why? My feet were bare. They were clean, but I wasn't wearing nylons or socks. Apparently, it was disrespectful to have bare feet at book study (even though I pointed out that in the Bible having bare feet was a sign of humbleness). A pair of socks were even offered to me to wear. I refused, but was wearing a long skirt so tucked my feet underneath. That just drove home the point (to me) that being at the meeting wasn't important, appearances were.
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  flipper

  JADEEN- That is absolutely incredible ! Two women got all over you for not wearing socks at the book study and having bare feet ? Oh, please ! It is so true what you say about " appearances being everything ! " Just ridiculous
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  monkeyman

  Albert Einstein said "Not everything that's counted counts, and not everything that counts is counted, "

  One of my favorite quotes. One of the reasons hours, magazine placements, meeting attendance, etc, are such of high priority and valued is because they are "counted". Other things that are more important like shepherding calls, helping friends develop a better relationship with God, and caring for one another are not valued because they are not "counted" on a report.

  It goes all the way up the ranks. Just one CO visit proves the point. In reccommending brothers for assignment, whats given the most weight is Hours, placements, mtg attendance and whatever is on his publisher record card.

  According to reports on this site, This is prevelant everywhere. It doesnt appear its going to change soon.

  This is why brown nosers and rule loving nazi- types thrive in this environment. All they have to do is meet the numbers requirement and poof, they now have uber authority over a congregation of people.

  Ever since I was a boy I had the goal of being an elder so I could help others. I spent 10 yrs as a MS and 14 as an elder. I found few opportunities to really "help" people.

  But when I did, it was very meaningful and still get people thanking me for that help decades after the fact.

  But, when its all said and done, I think it was worth it, how little it was.