Do JWs pave the way for Agnosticism/Atheism? My story.

Open mind

Most J.W.s I grew up around weren’t superstitious. Friday the 13 th , walking under ladders and spilled salt were for the blind and the ignorant. We had been set free and knew better.

To be sure, some J.W.s had their own special Theocratic superstitions. It seems that every congregation has at least one person for whom anything good that happens in their life is a “blessing from Jehovah” and anything bad was because of Satan. My parents weren’t like that. They would pay the occasional lip service to those ideas, but the overall message was that “blessings” came from hard work and bad things were due to poor preparation, the cruelty of others or “time and unforeseen occurrence”. Ultimately, we should be grateful to Jehovah because he gave us life and the ability to work for good things, but Jehovah wasn’t actively playing the part of Celestial Puppeteer.

In the field ministry, we were always right and could prove it. The majority of humans believe in some form of immortal soul. And they were wrong. Many believed in the trinity and hellfire and we had logical explanations showing how wrong those ideas were too.

All this iconoclastic background became fertile ground for me to question our own sacred cows when my mind became ripe enough. Special creation. The unquestionable existence of God.

These came tumbling down, thanks in part, to the worldview I was given as a child.

Does this make any sense to you?

om

Doubting Bro

Absolutely! I had a very similar experience to you in that even though I was raised JW, my parents never really attributed good or bad things to the influence of spiritual beings other than to say "Satan's system" is doing this or that or "we need the New System". Otherwise, I was taught that to succeed, you need to work hard.

I think JWs are trained to be so skeptical of "organized religion" that once we realize that God doesn't have a "channel of communication" on earth, doubting his existence is the next logical step.

Miss your comments by the way!

Mickey mouse

Great post, open mind. It's nice to see you here.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I agree 100%. I grew up in a strict JW household, but we weren't superstitious. We made fun of "holy rollers" and "Jesus freaks"...all the while spending our Saturday mornings trying to convert people to our religion...strange.

As I got older, I always favored the secular side of things in the American "culture wars." As a believing Witness, I was against prayer in schools and against teaching creationism/Intelligent Design in public schools. Many times as a young person I said to myself that if I didn't have "The Truth," I would almost certainly be an atheist/agnostic.

For many folks, JW-ism is the gateway drug for secular humanism. The WT poisons the well when it comes to other religions. Many JWs identify their belief system more by what it is not than what it is (e.g., no Trinity, immortal soul, or hell). So, when a JW realizes that JW-ism is false, it's difficult to join another church that likely teaches all 3 of the aforementioned "Babylonish false doctrines."

Kind of like how Richard Dawkins says--everyone is an atheist about most gods (e.g., Thor, Zeus, Wotan); I just take it one god further. That's what many ex-Witnesses do. And it's perfectly understandable and should be expected.

Psychotic Parrot

Yes they do.

I was raised a j-dub from birth to 18.

I'm now an atheist.

I would like to thank the watchtower organisation for making it so clear to me that God doesn't exist.

Cheers

carla

When I was in still in panic mode and calling all around for help, many, many ministers thought that jw's & Mormons create more atheists & agnostics than anyone else.

Chalam

Hello OM,

I agree, everyone has to go somewhere once they leave the JWs. Some go to the faith of "God cannot be known" and others the faith of "God does not exist".

If the WT pave the way for example to atheism then people like Richard Dawkins tarmac it and furnish it with road signs such as "drive fast", "science is truth" and such.

That said, there are those who have discovered that the WT does not lead to God and they still are looking for the path. For me the way is here John 14:6 and everything the WT do is to get you off that path and stuck in dead ends and blind alleys.

All the best,

Stephen

reniaa

hi openmind

To a degree I agree with you, (Your parents sound really nice btw) Organised religions are like looking at snowballs after they have rolled down a hill with all this packed snow they have gathered with them throughout history and culture that You have to deal with. You have to slice away all the unbiblical addition including the thought that God is a puppeteer. It's when I read the bible that I saw the true meaning of freewill, God gives us the choice but what we do with it is our choice.

I picked JWs because they constantly go back to the bible relooking at their assumptions and choices knowing that they would have made many from cultural or historical acceptance than biblical guidance that need slicing away or refining. It's the JW ability to be refined that attracts me to great degree as well as the fact they believe in the same God I do :)

but beyond that no one can give you a faith in God, now that is something different and very personal.

I examined myself deeply and the world around me and knew there was a God, you just can't teach that it's born in our hearts.

Reniaa

glenster

The JWs leaders don't believe, I know that.

All this "knowing" God is or isn't, though--believing in God is a matter of
faith. Don't mess with the see-able, touchable, measurable, like saying the
world was created in 4,004 BC. And don't be so 'centric you can't be friends
with different groups (belief/non-belief, age, race, nationality, etc.) because
that's when the trouble starts. And you're as free to believe in God as to love
a song wih no subjective obligation to anyone else or anyone else to you to
prove you have to logically. And if you try to persuade someone to your view,
I hope you're still friends afterward whether they go for it or not or somebody
f***ed up.

It's like Sydney Harris once said about the extreme conservative believers and
atheists who try to hard to persuade to their view--they have more in common
than they seem to realize. They're both trying to prove their case with the
see-able, touchable, measurable stuff, and that isn't even where the case is.
("I'll show you Noah's ark in the mountain" "Look at the see-able, touchable,
measurable--you know there's no God.")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_J._Harris

They remind me of something Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone said about "Loose
Change": "I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads
opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes." They can fool
people into losing track of the issue--it's a faith issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_%28film%29#Criticism

Open mind

Thanks for all the replies:

Doubting Bro said:

"Miss your comments by the way!"

Thanks DB. I've had to eliminate much of the time I used to spend on here, but I can't imagine never checking in from time to time. This place gave me permission to use my grey matter. What's left of it.

Mickey Mouse:

Nice to see you too.

Olin Moyles Ghost:

"We made fun of "holy rollers" and "Jesus freaks"..."

Exactly. JWs form of worship seems very clinical to me. Mysticism and ceremony are largely avoided. No incense, beautiful music, buildings or costumes. Whatever JWs believe needs to have some sort of logical explanation behind it, even though the underlying premise may be totally unfounded.

Psychotic Parrot:

"I would like to thank the watchtower organisation for making it so clear to me that God doesn't exist."

Amen.

carla:

"...jw's & Mormon's create more athiests & agnostics than anyone else."

Amen # 2.

Chalam:

Would you say that you can logically explain your faith or is it just something that you "know" at a gut level because Jesus has called you?

If I've painted a false dichotomy here, feel free to point that out as well.

Please know that I don't look down on believers. "Faith is not a possesion of all people." And I'm one of them.

Were your comments and quoting John 14:6 intended to help nudge me towards belief? Just curious.

I need logical explanations or I'm not buying. And from what I've read in Scripture, that makes me a lost cause.

reniaa:

"You have to slice away all the unbiblical addition including the thought that God is a puppeteer."

My hardline, JW-loyal parents taught me that God is NOT a Celestial Puppeteer. JWs dont' teach that nor do I believe it. How did you get that from my post?

"Your parents sound really nice btw"

Yes they are. For the most part. Except for the fact that they have shunned my oldest brother for decades due to his homosexuality. He got dunked at age 12. About the same time he began to notice he was drawn to guys not girls.

Most people are capable of a fair amount of evil on their own. But if you want EVIL in all caps, then you need to add religion into the mix.

Having said all that, if JWs work for you, more power to you. Just make sure not to mention to the elders what you do on here in your spare time. According to today's WT lesson they have the right to ask you personal questions and you have the obligation to tell them the complete truth about it. Right?

At the end of the day, if your mix of JWN and JWism keeps you sane, more power to you. Hell, I'm still an elder so I'm not going to get too high up on my hypocritical soap box.

glenster:

"The JWs leaders don't believe, I know that."

Care to elaborate?

om

Do JWs pave the way for Agnosticism/Atheism? My story.

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