The Son in two persons

by Deputy Dog 332 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento

  John 5: 22-23

  States that the Father Judges no man, he has given that (the role of judge) to the Son, this is an idication of the New Covenant over the Old covenant and also makes it clear the very high palce of Jesus, for angels are not allowed to Judge, but jesus is the sole Judge and notice it doesn't say "Will give judgment" to the son but says "has given", Jesus IS Judge, even before his ressurection.

  23 goes on to say that all must honour the son as they do the father ( even as they honour or according as they honour), making clear that in ALL Ways that we honour God, so must we honour Jesus, honour being one of the ways to translate "timao" which also means to venerate and revere and to value.
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  reniaa

  Hi

  I just wanted to reiterate they don't even use the word proskuneo either so you can't twist it, they use the word for honour only. Your going far beyond the scriptures intent if you put worship over it.

  Jesus did not replace his father he came to make his father Known to us yet we would make him God against his own will.

  Being of like mind with God is not a hypostatic union your reading your need to support your theory of hypostatic union into what is just agreement and similarity between father and son.

  Reniaa
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  PSacramento

  Reniaa,

  Yes, you are correct, John doesn't not use "proskueno" in that verse, I don't think that anyone is saying that, at least I hope not, LOL !

  What John does say is that just as we Honour ( rever, venerate, etc) the Father, in the same way we Honour the Son.

  Its a broad context that shows that how we behave in regards to the Father, so we must also behave in regards to the Son, and vice-versa.

  Would you disagree with that?
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  reniaa

  hi psacramento

  Yes if your broaden it right upto worship. venerate is more worship than honour and going beyond the scriptures intent..

  When someone honours a king it is about respect and honouring not about worship.

  I appreciate that you love Jesus but he never wanted to takes God's place in our worship and eyes. His love for his father is so profound he couldn't accept this unwanted gift from us.

  but anyway I appreciate we may never agree on this. You have opinions I respect though.

  thank you Psacramento.

  Reniaa
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  Deputy Dog

  PS

  Reniaa dishonors the Son with every keystroke. To honor the Son as a man, is to honor the Father as a man.
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  PSacramento

  Reniaa,

  Venerate is another definition of Proskueno, not mine, its greek.

  I don't place Jesus above God or in God's place, I don;t think anyone does or should, BUT God did give to his son many things that used to be "his role" in the Old Covenant, don't forget that, Jesus is lord and saviour, redeemer and Judge and the true representation of God, his exact form and we must FIRST know Jesus before we know God, as per Jesus's words in John.

  We will agree to disagree on many things, but that's ok too.
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  Deputy Dog

  The point of this thread was to show how that JWs deny on one hand, that any part of the person who was the Son in heaven could come down from heaven, and at the same time try to say that Michael and Jesus are the same person.

  I'll give you credit reniaa, you did a great job. Thank you. You are a Double minded person.
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  PSacramento

  DD,

  She didn't change the subject, it was clear that they, the JW's on this board, don't seem to have the answer, it was clear from the beginning.
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  Deputy Dog

  PS

  ...the JW's on this board, don't seem to have the answer, it was clear from the beginning.

  You're right and reniaa proved it.

  Thanks again reniaa.
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  isaacaustin