just a few questions I don't want to ask directly hell

by Janey214 92 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I DON'T WANT TO OFFEND ANYONE BY ASKING THESE QUESTIONS

  How can you learn the real truth without being able to ask the questions you want to ask. If they are so easily offended by a search for truth, then they don't have truth.

  I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW THE WATCHTOWER CAME ABOUT WITHOUT LISTENING TO TOO MUCH ANTI STUFF.

  When we want to know about a good deal being too good to be true, we listen to those who are against it, then weigh what they say accordingly. Why not learn the anti stuff?

  BASICALLY I UNDERSTAND THE BIT ABOUT APOSTASY BUT I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT WHETHER CT RUSSELL AND THE ORIGINAL MEMBERS OF THE WBTS WERE PROPHETS OR SCHOLARS? IF THEY WERE PROPHETS THEN WHAT HAPPENED? IF THEY WERE SCHOLARS DID THEY LOOK INTO OTHER FAITHS TO DISCOVER IF THE BIBLE TRUTHS WERE ALREADY RESTORED? MANY THANKS. JANE

  Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell and learn some stuff about Russell from a neutral source.

  He wasn't an educated scholar, he studied religion but it seems that it was mostly on his own.
  He was no prophet, for everything he predicted did not come true. After the end didn't come in 1874, Russell decided that Jesus came to earth invisibly in 1874 and the end would come at Armageddon 40 years later in 1914 (a literal generation). None of that happened and his legend grew long after his death when Watchtower Society told the members that he predicted the "beginning of the last days" in 1914 instead of the end of them.
• 

  bluecanary

  There are some articles on free minds I haven't read but may provide the information you're looking for.

  Here is a section on pre-Russell times: http://www.freeminds.org/organization/pre-russell/index.php

  And when Russell came around: http://www.freeminds.org/organization/russell/index.php

  You may also want to look at this thread for good questions to think about when studying with the Witnesses: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/180041/1/Talking-points-for-reasoning-with-JWs

  I absolutely second what bohm said. When you make a purchase, do you take the manufacturer's word that their product is the best? Do you compare it to products from other manufacturers? Do you read or listen to reviews from people who have purchased it? Do you read only the positive reviews or do you read negative ones, too? Aren't negative reviews only useful if the person has actually tried the product?
• 

  cantleave

  Digderidoo,

  Isn't it better to find things out for yourself rather than be spoon fed the answers. Doing the research will mean that the questioner will be confident in the answer found. The problem we have all had in the past is we were spoon fed answers by the WTB$.
• 

  betterdaze

  Welcome, Janey214.
  
  CT Russell and the original members were neither prophets or scholars, just businessmen.
  
  The Watchtower is a publishing company masquerading as a religion. Many here would call it a cult, too.
  
  Not one of their scripture-twisting prophecies has come true in over 130 years.
  
  Some of the doctrines were borrowed from failed Adventists, others were made up as needed.
  
  They enforce many man-made (and unChristian) rules that are not found anywhere in the Bible.
  
  The doctrines can change at any time the Governing Body (or their lawyers) see fit. YOU MUST accept them or face being put out as an "apostate."
  
  No doubt the ladies you've met seem very nice. They are trying to recruit you so you will become enslaved to pushing Watchtower propaganda just like they do. Sadly, they believe that their lives depend upon it.
  
  ~Sue
• 

  Satanus

  Good questions, janey. Start from the source and the beginning.

  As stated, russel was within the stream of the adventists, stetson, etc. He was no scholar. Instaed he was following the steps of his father, who was a businessman, had stores, selling clothes, and whatnot. However, russel got bitten by end of the world craziness. He sold his business and put everything into the forming publishing companies. Being a gifted orater he went on whirlwind speaking tours. He attracted a lot of attention, and started writing his own stuff for the groupies that he attracted. He formed a loosely knit org called the bible students.

  He made MANY predictions, basing them on ussher's chronology, the egytptian great pyramid and other esoterric stuff. Of course, everything hne predicted was false. After he died, jf rutherford ousted those who were to be the primary members of the board of directors to continue russel's leagacy. Rutherford totally remodelled the loose knit org into a centrally controled one, by rutherford himself. He also gradually tossed out or revamped all of russel's chronology. He basically created a new org, the one that continues to today.

  S
• 

  Satanus

  Good questions, janey. Start from the source and the beginning.

  As stated, russel was within the stream of the adventists, stetson, etc. He was no scholar. Instaed he was following the steps of his father, who was a businessman, had stores, selling clothes, and whatnot. However, russel got bitten by end of the world craziness. He sold his business and put everything into the forming publishing companies. Being a gifted orater he went on whirlwind speaking tours. He attracted a lot of attention, and started writing his own stuff for the groupies that he attracted. He formed a loosely knit org called the bible students.

  He made MANY predictions, basing them on ussher's chronology, the egytptian great pyramid and other esoterric stuff. Of course, everything hne predicted was false. After he died, jf rutherford ousted those who were to be the primary members of the board of directors to continue russel's leagacy. Rutherford totally remodelled the loose knit org into a centrally controled one, by rutherford himself. He also gradually tossed out or revamped all of russel's chronology. He basically created a new org, the one that continues to today.

  S
• 

  Lillith26

  Hello Jane

  Welcome to the board!

  Iam not classed as an apostate or an ex-JW... I was just like you 2yrs ago (by this I mean I began a study with a really nice ladyJW), I have since left my studies and any association with the WT org (not the people). Just like most others on here, I can not stress enough the point that you really need to know what your getting yourself into, at first they will seem very convincing and for someone who has little bible knowledge it will be hard to find error in what your being taught by the WTBTS at first. You have come to the right place for information (use the search on here to bring up threads relating to your questions and please concider even the anti stuff).

  One thing you will not be taught by a JW is that suposed apostates have nothing to gain by telling you anti stuff- these are people who have been hurt by this cult mentally, emotionally, physically and many still have relatives that because of the JW shunning policies will not speak to them. Some are people who want to leave but because of close family and friends, they stay in order to not loose these relationships that are being controlled by the WTBTS. It was easy for me to leave- I had no close family or friends in at the time and stood to loose nothing by leaving, I was just a 'study' and they were not too concerned by my 'lack of faith in the faithfull slave'. I joined this forum after leaving, so some of my earlier posts were VERY ANTI LOL- but I after sticking around and reading and learning I now have a much better understanding of the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses- the anger is almost fully gone for me.

  The information I first found while doing a history check on CTRussel was in the online wikipedia- but there is some really informative information on him and the original members here on JWN (check in the best of topics section on the board). Like I said earlier- people now classed by the WTBTS as apostates are real people who have absolutly nothing to gain by telling you information about this cult- most speak anti to people concidering joining out of love not hate. The best cure is prevention!

  Dont be worried about asking them questions, (they came to question you!), but at the same time ask your self the hard questions- what do you believe? I hope you will find the answers are in your heart- not in a book published by the organisation trying to convert you.

  Take care and question everything.

  Lillith
• 

  reniaa

  hi Janey

  what Jws believe started with Jesus and threads of this belief that continued throughout history. You should look up the arianism which was a group in opposition to trinitarians.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

  Unfortunately trinitarians won in a massive doctrinal battle between the two factions and the 'One God' believers that believed Jesus was God's created son lost. they were executed and any documents they wrote destroyed but enough mention of them survived so we know these things happenned.

  After that anyone that didn't accept a triune god was killed as a heretic they were extremely ruthless in this. Even the bible was kept for approved people to read. The bible being put in languages the average person could read was only quite recent development historically.

  Did you know that Sir isaac Newton was a 'One Almighty God' believer in the father? He completely rejected trinity and wrote secret diaries about his belief only allowing thtem to be found after his death knowing they may have meant death or imprisonment if found when he was alive.

  Sir Isaac Newton knew about the scriptures that had been rewritten to support the trinity doctrine

  1 john 5:7 additions among others (thankfully these days only the oldest versions have the lie in them after it was openly found to be false additions)

  By the time russel came along many people were beginning to realise how much the church had wandered from the the bible and with the threat of death no longer over their heads they could go back to the bible to find the real teachings.

  But not many could grasp it wasn't just a case of changing one or two doctrinal points but re-examining the whole bible from scratch building the church/congregation as Jesus originally intending it to be.

  Thats why Russel and others with him bacame bible students they went back to the start and discovered Jehovah.

  John 4:23
  Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

  John 20:17
  Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

  If you research it through history you will find it a harrowing yet awe inspiring story of people that give up everything including their lifes to serve and support Jehovah and his ACTUAL son Jesus.

  Reniaa
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hi there. When I was researching the history of Jehovah's Witnesses, I found a 20 year collection of materials at www.freeminds.org

  http://www.freeminds.org/organization/index.php is a part of the site with some history of Russell.

  I would say that if Russell was a prophet, or if one wants to parse words, used by Jehovah as a prophet, he wouldn't have had to change so many times.

  Here is a list of dates that the Watchtower got wrong. I would suggest taking a few minutes to absorb it all.

  http://www.freeminds.org/Doctrine/Prophecy/comprehensive-list-of-false-dates-set-by-the-watchtower.html

  I hope to hear what you think of this information. Best wishes to you!

  http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/prophecy/spiritual-food-at-the-proper-time-part-1.html One more link...
• 

  OUTLAW

  what Jws believe started with Jesus and threads of this belief that continued throughout history.....Reniaa

  Unbelievable BullShit!!

  What JW`s believe now..Started with a womanizing drunk,named Rutherford..

  Who spent money donated to the WBT$,on himself..

  Gangster Al Capone owned a Cadillac Coupe..

  Rutherford owned 2 Cadillac Coupes..

  Obviously Capone was in the wrong Business..

  .....................LOL!!...OUTLAW