by Janey214 92 Replies latest jw friends
hi Janey,
From memory, and I may be wrong, this video may cover that kind of doctrine.
It is a non-specific video, giving a general idea of how mind control groups work.
Have a look and compare it to what you are being taught.
Come back and tell us what you think of the video please. I have never heard a reaction to it from someone in your position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
Cheers
Chris
Hi Janey, and welcome :-)
I've not seen the JWFacts site suggested yet, so I recommend you take a look at the vast information available there -- www.jwfacts.com. You will find much information about the origins of the JWs, and specific info regarding your questions about Russell, Beth Sarim, etc.
Part of the problem you're running into with your study conductors is that typical JWs generally don't even know their own history. That is actively discouraged, in fact -- the past is written off as "old light" and the rank-and-file members are strongly discouraged from looking too closely at the organization's history. So you're not likely to get informed, straightforward answers from the ladies who are studying with you. The good news is that your own independent research will tell you all that you want and need to know. jwfacts.com is an excellent place to start.
As for the 144,000, the JW teaching is that Christ is the mediator only for those. All others, do not have Christ as their mediator. It is unusual that your study conductors told you this upfront; many JWs don't even fully realize it, much less admit it to "outsiders."
Independent research is a very good thing, and it's great that you're asking so many intelligent questions and not looking to get baptised any time soon. Keep doing that :-)
Again, welcome
ooo cool !
See I think the problem is that I like to dig around subjects, and certainly digging around religion could be considered a hobby for mine!
I can't exactly remember what we were talking about, but we were talking about the Spirit, gifts of the Spirit and baptism by fire. I think it was when I was questioning them about the teaching of being baptised in water and spirit that they threw the revelation in that the bible was only written for the 144,000.
If that's the case, where on earth or how on earth did CT Russell etc decide that? Again it comes back to the same thing, is there scriptural evidence (however stretched or unapparent this might be) to assert the WTs claim or again is this linked in with some sort of prophecy?
Many thanks again!
J
I love your last post Janey. You are thinking. This is something that you are discouraged from doing by the WT.
I am confident that you will be OK. Just keep thinking, and keep asking, and don't accept BS answers.
Cheers
Chris
Janey 214 if you can get the ladies who are studying with you thinking a bit , that's a good thing.
hi Janey
Do you think the leaders of others churches were prophets and blessed? they all started the same way as witnesses, the roman catholics started with a caesar, john calvin origin leader of the presbytarian churches predicted armageddon in his life time. Church of England has a king that wanted a divorce as it's head. Look to any church and they all have men in them from apostles onwards.
What makes the churches different is whether they teach the right bible message.
2 Timothy 3:16
AllScripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Russell was man like many throughout history that saw how far from the bible churches had come and just wanted to go back to bible teaches he didn't claim to be inspired of God or perfect just commited to the bible message.
And yes as part of it was that he himself had a few ideas that needed refining away, pyramidology was very popular in his day the important thing is witnesses didn't take it up as it clearly was found to be unbiblical.
After 1700 years of wrong teaching and Satan constantly trying to obsccure true bible word do you think it would be easy to get back to truthful teachings? this parable of Jesus's of what will happen until he returns clearly shows what has happenned.
24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28 " 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29 " 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
This has happenned, when Jesus returns he isn't looking for some messiah type race but simply people that are following the bible truthfully and not allowed themselves to become weeds letting the bible and holy spirit guide them.
Another thing is we will have limited holy spirit gifts in these times.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
A religion should not be judged by the imperfection of men in it because we all are imperfect, the scripture above shows we are imperfect until Jesus returns and sorts us out. A religion should be judged on it's teachings.
Christianity is 2000 years old and People that take up the challenge of being leaders until JEsus's return teaching their followers the bible and to be christians are held accountable for that even more so than the flock.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
They may have chosen themselves but Jesus will be judging them for that choice. So anyone can be a leader/overseer until Jesus's return but they have to teach and preach the ACTUAL bible message.
Reniiaa
If that's the case, where on earth or how on earth did CT Russell etc decide that?
He didn't. Don't quote me, but I think that was Rutherford that came up with that one.
I don't have a sensible answer for you.
Ask your ladies.
Cheers
Chris
P.S.
I think Ren is my father. I wouldn't trust him in my car with an icecream.
People constantly looking at the imperfection of men remind me of this scripture.
John 8:7
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
If your looking for perfect men then your going to be disappointed only Jesus was perfect and we don't get perfection until he returns and that includes our leaders of men but that doesn't mean we should go off and form our own religion of one person, namely ourselves because you are just making a leader of yourself and you will be judged as a leader and on whether you follow the bible or your own inclinations.
Just don't get fooled by those that would say russell was "such and such imperfect man" well of course he was! thats not the point. Appostle Paul stumbled many that way too but did that disqualify Paul?
2 Corinthians 10:10
For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing."
It's isn't about the people it's about what they teach and whether they doing the will of the father
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
It's easy to criticize from the side of a field where the workers in it are going wrong but how will you get a wage unless you ARE a worker?
Reniaa
