Documentary About The Flood and Noah's Ark

by Blue Grass 121 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    It is really uncool for you to call me "deceptive" when I am trying my best to patiently explain why you are mistaken, and you wonder why I find you frustrating to talk to? I find it ironic that you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty when you are the guy talking about dino steaks!

    You are being totally deceptive here and you know it. Is it possible to have cadaver stink from non-organic matter? Of course not. Everyone knows this. What do you hope to accomplish by suggesting otherwise?

    A perfect example of why you are frustrating — you are accusing me of dishonesty because of something that I never claimed. I never said that the dinosaur bones did not have organic matter; I said the exact opposite! How can we have a productive conversation when you mischaracterize things so easily?

    I am not the one claiming cadaver stink.

    And I never disputed that the smell was reportedly reminiscent of a cadaver to Dr. Schweizter.

    The article references Dr. Schweitzer and her "boss" Dr. Horner as confirming this, not me. Please stop calling it an odor as if you can somehow change the fact that it was cadaver stink.

    An odor is not a stink? What are you talking about? I suppose Dr. Horner should stop calling it an odor too when he writes that "fossils from Hells Creek tend to have a strong odor" (How to Build a Dinosaur, 2009, p. 59). Dr. Horner should be ashamed of himself for using that deceptive word!

    In order to make any sense at all, you would have to somehow show that cadaver stink can and does occur without rotting tissue.

    I already explained this on the last page and Dr. Schweitzer goes into further detail in her articles. Since you still haven't grasped the point, let me really dumb it down for you. The tissue rotted. Yes, Virginia, it rotted! And rotting dead things stink .... like dead rotting things. When things rot, they decompose and degrade. But the stinky components the tissue rotted into were not replaced by stone (as in petrification). The particular chemical environment inside the buried stone preserved those stinky components by stopping their decomposition, most likely through the chemical changes that Dr. Schweitzer outlines (although there is much still to be learned about fossil taphonomy). The microenvironment inside the bone promoted stasis not decompositional change. So the bone contains the products of decomposition, and they stink! But there is not an active process of decomposition (a.k.a. "rotting"), which can also stink. The presence of stinky organic compounds does not necessarily imply that the tissue is currently rotting away.

    Why was the odor (sorry, I mean a vile deathly stench) a big deal in the Discover article? It says that it was an indication that the bone was not "made up entirely of minerals". That's the big deal — that it contained organic compounds. That's not the same thing as saying that it was "rotting". What does Dr. Horner say? He says the "odor" (his word) "may have something to do with the organic material preserved" (p. 59). Interesting. That's pretty much the same thing I said in my previous posts.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    TheOldHippie...Oh yes indeed, I agree...In case I wasn't clear, I was talking about the hypothesis that the Black Sea inundation was responsible for certain cultural changes, including the flood myths of the ANE. This is a separate issue from the physical evidence bearing on the inundation itself.

  • BarefootServant
    BarefootServant

    Surely it is pointless arguing over the word 'rotting'. The fact is, the agreed evidence is that there are organic remains of dinosaurs that are allegedly millions of years old. Also, it is a fact that most scientists regard this possibility as preposterous. So either Dr. Schweitzer is wrong (and possibly incompetent), or she is right and the scientific community has a paradigm shock on its hands. It will then be for them to determine whether the organic remains of dinosaurs can indeed survive for millions of years, or whether the best explanation is that they are much younger. However, and I share Perry's cynicism here, there's not much incentive to rock the boat.

    Fascinating stuff.

  • bohm
    bohm

    I remember reading an article years ago where there was an image of (i believe) remains of muscle fiber from a dinosaur. i just dont see why its such a shocking idea to find organic material from more than 65 mio. years ago. The gassoline in your car is older than that, and thats organic- or how about insects in amber? some of them are more than 100 mio. years old and very well preserved.

    And what the f#ck is a paradigm shock anyway?!

  • Psychotic Parrot
    Psychotic Parrot

    And what the f#ck is a paradigm shock anyway?!

    Something that fundies are desperately hoping for.

  • Perry
    Perry
    Recent examples of "stinking", "rotting" dinosaur tissue, soft tissue, hemoglobin and protein fragments just add to the fossil record of dinosaurs and humans co-existing, destroying many evolutionary claims.
    You do not have your facts straight.

    Leolaia,

    Fact #1 - hemeglobin fragments were found just as I reported

    Fact # 2 protein fragments were sequenced as I reported

    Fact # 3 According to the article, Schweitzer and Horner notice the "common" stench of death in dinosaur bones similar to a cadaver

    Fact # 4 According to the article this leads Schweitzer to wonder if traces of preserved organic material was inside, prompting investigation

    Fact # 5 That investigation produced stretchy soft tissue, (as well as what appeared to be blood vessels & cells) found inside the leg bone of a T-Rex

    I ask:

    If the soft tissue is not what smells like a cadaver, then what was it that was producing the cadaver smell? If it was the soft dinosaur tissue that was producing the stench of death, then is it possible for the stench of death to emit from a [claimed] suspended state ("rotted" as opposed to "rotting") for longer that it would take for entire mountain ranges to weather down and rise again? (65 million years)

    Since you still haven't grasped the point, let me really dumb it down for you. The tissue rotted.

    Your arrogance is breath-taking.

    Yes, Virginia, it rotted! And rotting dead things stink .... like dead rotting things.

    Whoa, wait a minute Hoss. Your whole argument is that "rotted" (past tense) things stink. Now you link the stink to "rotting" things? Which is it?

    When things rot, they decompose and degrade.

    And no longer smell like a corpse when that process is completed I might add.

    But the stinky components the tissue rotted into were not replaced by stone (as in petrification).

    No matter, how much you don't want it to be so, no matter how much you repeat this falsehood, the soft tissue was ORIGINAL. For some of the material, IT DIDN'T "ROT" INTO ANYTHING.

    The presence of stinky organic compounds does not necessarily imply that the tissue is currently rotting away.

    Of course not. Kinda like design doesn't necessarily imply a designer?

    you wonder why I find you frustrating to talk to? I find it ironic that you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty when you are the guy talking about dino steaks!

    I have never wondered why. I just accept it on faith that that you find frustrating most anyone who disagrees with you. Get some common sense.... and grab a sense of humor while you're at it.

    Dino Steaks anyone....anyone?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Always had problems with the flood story....never believed it. The idea is now so laughable I am embarrassed to think that I actually thought that a plausible explanation would present itself to me, in order for me to justify my faith in other things. God what a sucker I was.

  • BarefootServant
    BarefootServant
    I remember reading an article years ago where there was an image of (i believe) remains of muscle fiber from a dinosaur. i just dont see why its such a shocking idea to find organic material from more than 65 mio. years ago. The gassoline in your car is older than that, and thats organic- or how about insects in amber? some of them are more than 100 mio. years old and very well preserved.

    How long will the gas in your car last out in the open air? And insects in amber are insulated from the air, that's the only reason they're protected from decay.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Dino's, once the friend of secularists are now on the Runnnnn!

    Here's a carving from an Cambodian temple in the 1100's

    You can view all 87 pages of dinosaurs represented in art here:

    http://s8int.com/dinolit1.html

    And of course hundreds of billions vertebrate of fossils contained in the Karoo deposits don't do much to support uniformitarianism (fancy word for flood doubters) http://s8int.com/boneyard1.html

    Yep, I'm afraid that secularists just aren't doing very well lately. Once, I posted some graphic images of aborted babies after they were chopped up. Needless to say the outcry was immediate and loud. However, it is a fact of modern life.... millions of little arms and legs dismembered, skulls crushed etc. It is legal to present these images to the public, but most simply cannot psychologically handle this reality. Just because it is suppressed, doesn't mean this grim reality doesn't exist. The dino issue is similar.

    To this and many other inconvenient facts I say to my opponents:

    DEAL WITH IT

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Perry,

    Not sure what your obvious reference to abortion has to do with the Flood.

    Not very cool at all.

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