To Angel Eyes & Other WT Apologists

by snowbird 136 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  isaacaustin

  Pleasure is mine Psac.
• 

  brinjen

  Little story I'd like to share with you all... in a philosophical mood tonight... no one panic, it won't last.

  I just finished the induction training for a job I just started. One of our 'tasks' tonight... we were each given a handful of play dough which we were each instructed to sculpt into something which represents our own personal values. We then had to tell the rest of the group (15 trainees in total) what our sculpture represented and why. Lot of common themes amongst us... family, love etc...

  We then, each had to get up, walk around the room looking at everyone else's sculptures then pick one... any except our own. We stood in front of the sculpture, we were then instructed to raise our right hand... which we all did.

  We were then instructed to use our right hand to smash the sculpture in front of us... 12 complied, the other 3 refused.

  Moral? We all prize our own values but how often do we stop and think about how much our actions crush the values of others? Something to think about there...
• 

  Chalam

  I agree, it is in the delivery.

  But let us remember that those who are not born again are slaves to sin Romans 6 so do not expect everything to be a smooth ride.

  If a poster is winding you up then pray for love if you don't have it.

  There comes a time when it is prudent not to respond. I found that with Reniaa. I dealt with her in love. The issue I found with her was not her tone but a lack of progress. I took time and effort to debate with her but, like many JWs, she side stepped the issues. I don't not blame her for that but I got to the point where "what's the point"? You can lead a horse to water but...

  Revelation 22 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

  All the best, Stephen
• 

  snowbird

  Moral? We all prize our own values but how often do we stop and think about how much our actions crush the values of others? Something to think about there...

  That's it!!!

  We have no problem at all stating what WE want, like, etc...

  Yet, it seems to never cross our minds that others may feel just the opposite.

  Thanks, for that, Brin.

  Sylvia
• 

  LouBelle

  Snowbird - sure we all state what we personally like, want, etc but I do think that the majority realise that some don't agree, some do, some are chasing fairies and for the most part respect that, but when you trivialise someones pain.....that's another story.
• 

  brinjen

  You're welcome Sylvia.
• 

  snowbird

  but when you trivialise someones pain.....that's another story.

  Exactly!

  That's why I asked your forgiveness when I thought you were offended by my remarks on English spelling.

  This is a community, albeit a cyber one, and we should all try to get along. It makes things so much more pleasant.

  Sylvia
• 

  BadBettie

  Maybe a different point of view, although I do say I feel sad for apoligists, when you fail to show basic compassion or call someone elses experience false (in a religion that has proven to have MANY variables from cong to cong) you should re assess your way of "dealing" with people you disagree with.

  I used to be an apoligist to my well educated associates in highschool and beyond. Being an apoligist in my case and some of who I know comes from hurt and frustration. I HAD to stay in the org to be with my family, I didn't believe in god, but somehow I had to rationalise it....even if I did end up using well...its the closest thing to the right religion, forgetting that I myself didn't believe in god.

  The whole time you are in the org you get positive re enforcement and are told how right, goods and perfect the organisation is. You're basically getting uhh ...your back rubbed the whole time and yeah you will think very odd things that don't make sense because of all the "GOOD" signals going to your head. I am the sort that avoids lying if at all possible (its pointless and causes more trouble) and I would half lie sometimes or exaggerate to prove my point to opposers...I think Ive seen that on this board too with some "apologists"

  It takes time for many of them it took me almost 6 years to come around. It took me a year and a half to two years being out to realise "Holy cow, I have been conditioned". I don't necessarily feel it was intentional at the level it was administered to me, but it sure ruins me as an adult sometimes. I get nervous when my more strict JW relatives are around.

  For the sake of being helpful I don't ever doubt any stories here, although some exaggerated things that are obvious I take with a grain of salt. If someone wants to lie [not accusing anyone!], go ahead, but remember, you will still be treated as if you were hurt that way because even if your lying butt can't take comfort from it, someone too afraid to express that pain that they may have will. And thats part of why I'm here anyway.

  What changed me?

  I never got in trouble for anything. I was never kicked out. It took me not being around for 2 years to have people wonder "can I talk to her?" (you can read it on their faces). I simply said I cannot believe it anymore [I will make a thread soon Im kind of in an odd phase at the moment]. If you sit down in one sitting and put it all together and it sadly does not make any sense. I could get a few witnesses to doubt with some of the discussions I have, but that is not my goal. People do not learn truly until they realise things for themselves, and sometimes that is a painful lesson.

  When I was across from someone who agreed to be unbiased and ask me logic based questions on biblical teaching it blew me away. When I had someone who I respected and respected me go through it. It was more clear it was not the truth. Even if I did believe in god, I would not think they are the truth. Its too far from Russells "search for the truth".. The other thing is you have to miss about 2 weeks of meetings to have an open enough mind. That positive re enfiorcement is a tough cookie to crumble. Must build up in the blood like THC.

  (sorry for the length, still waking up, can't condense thought)
• 

  snowbird

  (sorry for the length, still waking up, can't condense thought)

  You did very well.

  That's why I reached out to Angel Eyes - I can feel her turmoil.

  Yet, with all her conditioning as a JW, she's got to realize how flippantly cruel some of her remarks seem.

  Sylvia
• 

  palmtree67

  I loved your little anecdote, Brinjen.

  Sad that 12 complied and only 3 didn't.