SAMMIE'S WIFE- Good points you make. It is true as you say the more liberal a JW family was - the easier to exit the cult if they weren't that devout in the witnesses. I know like with your experience I've had really totally involved JW family, elders, missionaries, pioneers, but I have some family, nieces and nephews who are NOT real strongly involved witnesses. So it's been a mixed bag in moving on for me. Some are hard on me- some are not. It certainly is true as you say that issues can re-surface once we exit the JW's and have to deal with moving on in our future- while our backs are still up against the past. Hang in there you guys. Thinking of you
Being Under Cult Mind Control is a Psychological Disorder - Steve Hassan
by flipper 89 Replies latest jw friends
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Georgiegirl
Hey there! While I agree with alot of what Steve Hassan says, for accuracy's sake I need to point out that being under any form of cult mind control has, in fact, been removed from the DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual for the APA). It was in the DSM-III. There is some controversy over why it was removed (some feel it was in direct relation to the M. Singer issues; I have NO idea and can't comment b/c of not knowing enough about it).
Disassociative disorder IS still on the books, and there is a diagnostic code that indicates it is non-specific...
Just wanted to clarify this just in case anyone is asked/confronted - that way the information presented is accurate. :)
gg.
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jonathan dough
It's almost like a mass hypnotic state (which is ironic really, as JWs are fearful of hypnotism as a form of mind control)
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One way to reinforce thought is by repetition, that is why when an article is read at the meeting, the people reiterate what they hear afterward. It is a reinforcement technique and does work as a form of control.
Absolutely true. The writing is hypnotic in and of itself. It pulls you in. There really are demonic forces at work. No other explanation. The repetition reinforces the propaganda.
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JimmyPage
The Watchtower "mother organization" won't let go. It wants them to remain dependent and helpless forever.
I could not agree with Tirebiter more.
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JimmyPage
But I tell you that not being at the meetings is such a total freedom. If I go to just one meeting now for my husband it is amazing how clear you can see and feel the hypnotic way the meetings are run.
I now understand why they stress for you not to mess even just one meeting. It is all for cult control. If you go on vacation your are told demanded to look up a Kingdom Hall where you are at and go to the meetings. My Word you can not take one stupid week off to go away. No you are still demanded to be at the meetings and made to feel bad for not doing it. That is total mind control how can people not see that. We just got back from a vacation and the few JW's that I have run into the very first thing they say to me was how were the meetings where you were at and did you get a chance to go door to door. Oh my God.
Ditto. So many good thoughts on this thread.
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flipper
GEORGIE GIRL- Although the dissociative disorder may have been taken out of the diagnostic manual - one has to ask oneself if it wasn't cultlike religions that pressured to have it removed. Cult mind control is still a mental condition with dissociative disorder being a real problem in cult members. I tend to stay on the side of Steve Hassan's opinions. Thanks for the update though and clarification. By the way - What was the Singer case? Do you have a link or an artcle we can refer to read it ?
JONATHAN DOUGH- The WT societies writings are hypnotic. So hypnotic I used to fall asleep at meetings. My mind would be tired by the end of every meeting.
JIMMY PAGE- Very true. The WT society wants all it's members to be helpless and insecure. And dependent on ONLY them for info. But I'm glad I stopped attending meetings 6 years ago. My mind has been so clear and free thinking since. I bet you find the same thing with you
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Georgiegirl
Flipper - Sorry - I might not have made myself clear. Dissaociative disorder is DEFINITELY still in the DSM-IV. However, in the DSM-III one of the reasons for it was cult/mind control and THAT causation has been removed because it the link between coercive persuasion and dissocative disorder cannot be definitely made.
As far as the Singer case, I'm still trying to wade through truth and fiction on that. From what I can ascertain (and anyone who can provide the legitimate research to help, I'd love to see it) Margaret Singer was at the forefront of work done on cults and mind control. She was one of the founding members of the AFF (AMerican Family Foundation) which is controversial in and of itself because of their forceable work to kidnap and deprogram cult members. Alot of harm was done by their techniques. From what I understand, the AFF evolved into the Cult Awareness Network. That name was bought by Scientology, causing even more confusion and harm. It is now in the form of ICSA, the International Cult Studies Association, which appears to be legit (although it too has its detractors - mainly cults - ha!).
From wikipedia (I know, not always totally reliable which is why I'm still trying to wade through all of this, but it seems to be accurate):
The American Psychological Association (APA) in 1983 asked Singer, who was one of the leading proponents of coercive persuasion theories, to chair a taskforce to investigate whether brainwashing or "coercive persuasion" did indeed play a role in recruitment by such groups. The task force was titled APA Task Force on Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control (DIMPAC).
The final report of the Task Force was completed in November 1986. The APA Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology (BSERP) rejected the report, stating that it lacked scientific rigor and an evenhanded approach, but also stating that it did not have sufficient information to take a position. There is dispute about whether the rejection of the report constituted a rejection of Singer's theories by the APA.
She sued them and lost.
From a purely professional point of view, one of the challenges is empirical evidence of mind control theory. There is obviously alot of anecdotal evidence but true empirical studies that are accepted in the scientific and medical communities are few and far between. There is huge need in this field.
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Georgiegirl
Ugh. Hate double posts. Sorry!
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flipper
GEORGIE GIRL- Thanks for the clarification on the Singer case. I wasn't aware of the details in that particular case.
One thing about it - by cult mind control Jehovah's Witnesses are misled by the WT society to practice the shunning of JW relatives who stop attending meetings or get DFed. And THAT causes dissociative disorder in witnesses which causes them to have dual personalities - to the point where they turn off any emotional feelings of warmth towards their flesh and blood relatives - while they are in cult mode . And they'll only get back to their authentic, true caring personality to show ANY love towards non-JW relatives ONLY if their triggers aren't tripped to think cult speak.
I know - I've experienced this with my JW daughter ( 22) where she'll be talking kindly to me and expressing affection - then suddenly as if taken over by JW cult mind control- something in mid conversation switches her into an aloof non-caring robotlike personality due to just one word or thought shared between us. So I've seen this dissociative thing firsthand - believe me. Her eyes glaze over and once again I feel like I'm losing my daughter all over again each time. It's very sad. But I cope with it . I just hold out hope that maybe some day she will change. It's all I can do
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Saoirse
and THAT causes dissociative disorder in witnesses which causes them to have dual personalities - to the point where they turn off any emotional feelings of warmth towards their flesh and blood relatives - while they are in cult mode . And they'll only get back to their authentic, true caring personality to show ANY love towards non-JW relatives ONLY if their triggers aren't tripped to think cult speak. I know - I've experienced this with my JW daughter ( 22) where she'll be talking kindly to me and expressing affection - then suddenly as if taken over by JW cult mind control- something in mid conversation switches her into an aloof non-caring robotlike personality due to just one word or thought shared between us.
That sounds very similar to my mother who won't speak to me but will turn around and call my mother-in-law and cry and tell her how horrible I am for not wanting anything to do with her. She shuns me and then tries to make it my fault.
My mother-in-law will phone my husband and express concern for me and my health. She even sent me the latest WT on Depression because she thought I was depressed. (I'm the furthest thing from depressed and I'm sure that anyone that's met me will testify to that. ) Then, she will turn around and talk about me behind my back and try to turn non-JW relatives against me. I just found out that she has been trash-talking me to my young niece.
They really do have dual personalities. I don't even know how to deal with someone like that. It makes me want to pull my hair out.