AGuest,
Is Jesus a true "god" or a false god?
is jesus a god?
by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible
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PSacramento
For all intents and purposes, in rgeards to the New Covenant, Jesus is God if one so choose to view him as such.
Jesus is our Lord and Saviour, our Judge and redeemer, ALL the God is, Jesus is.
If you choose to view that as Jesus being God, that's fine, no trinitarian views Jesus as God the father so No, the trinity does NOT teach that Jesus is/was God the father ( YHWH).
If you choose to believe that Jesus was simply "a God" like all other "gods", well...thatis your choice too, though I don't know of ANY "god" that is Lord, Saviour, Judge and Redemmer, do you?
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jonathan dough
Links:
20) Proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God.
21) Phillip said to Jesus: Show us the Father - (John 14:8-10)
22) Jesus Christ resurrected Himself - (John 2:19 - 22)
24) The Father and I are one - (John 10:27-30)
27) The eternal Christ was not created - (Isaiah 9:6)
30) Prior to His incarnation Christ subsisted in the form (morphe) of God - (Philippians 2:6)
32) The Word was “begotten,” but not made, not created - (John 1:14)
33) The Messiah of the Old Testament stems from eternity - (Micah 5:2; Proverbs 8:22)
34) The Almighty says of Jesus “Your throne, Oh God, is forever and ever” - (Hebrews 1:8, 9)
35) Thomas called the resurrected Jesus “My Lord and my God” - (John 20:26 - 29)
36) Jesus refers to Himself as the “I AM,” which is God’s own self-designation - (John 8:58)
37) And the Word was God - (John 1:1)
38) The Holy Spirit is the divine third Person of the Holy Trinity.
46) Jesus Christ is not Michael the Archangel as the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.
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AGuest
May you have peace!
The Holy One of Israel is a true god, although not THE True God (which position is reserved for the MOST Holy One of Israel). A true god is simply an immortal being, however a TRUE being. A false god is one "who has eyes, but cannot see, a mouth but cannot speak, ears but cannot hear," etc. A mere "idol" of a god. Psalm 115:1-8 In that light, Satan... who can see, hear, speak, etc., is also a true "god," in the sense that he is (1) immortal, and (2) the god of this system of things, truly... and ruler of the world. 2 Corinthians 4:4
Dearest PSacramento... may you also have peace!
I don't know that "choosing" to view our Lord as God is what we are to do. We have to remember that HE set the pattern for US. Thus, if HE said that only God is good... and that the Most Holy One of Israel is GREATER than he is... then we should most probably "follow" his lead on that.... rathe than run ahead of what HE taught. The time will come soon enough when the kingdom is handed over to him for perpetuity; however, that won't occur until after the FATHER has sat down on HIS throne... to judge.
True, judging has been GRANTED to our Lord, but one of the reasons that IS true is because of HIS humility: although he has the RIGHT to judge, he does not... but commits ALL judging to the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. It is the Ancient of Days, JAH of Armies... who holds "court" over mankind, not Christ, our Lord. This is the EPITOME of humility: when although one has been granted AUTHORITY to judge by one higher and holding ultimate authority, such one does NOT... but returns that authority to the one who gave it, as reserved for such one. Such one is saying, in essence, that he acknowledgs and ACCEPTS the authority... and SOVEREIGNTY... of the one who granted it in the first place.
Revelation 20:11 – Although many believe this to be our Lord, it is in fact our Heavenly Father who sits down on the “great white throne.” We know this because Daniel saw the same thing and Paul corroborated that Christ turns the kingdom back over to the Father:
Daniel 7:9, 10, 13 – Here, a grand throne is placed (and note, it is one throne ONLY! The plurality of the word Aramaically denotes its [level of] majesty. See NWT footnote) and it is the Ancient of Days, the MOST Holy One of Israel, who takes HIS seat. HE is the “Court,” so that “Judgment” belongs to HIM.
We KNOW it is the MOST Holy One of Israel, because the HOLY One of Israel comes “with the clouds of the heavens” (which cloud(s), BTW, is the same that led Israel out of Egypt… and filled the Most Holy in the temple), and is brought up close BEFORE the Ancient of Days… and it is HERE… AFTER Judgment Day that he FULLY inherits the kingdom. This is because the Last Enemy, Death… is NO MORE.
1 Corinthians 15:24-26 – Paul is speaking here of when Christ hands the kingdom BACK over to the Father, after bringing to nothing all of the earthly governments, authority, etc. This occurs while Satan is abyssed; however, when loosed, Satan misleads Gog and Magog to come against God’s the Holy City, New Jerusalem, which is made up of God’s people… and in the MIDST of whom is Christ, the Tree of Life, which Gog and Magog are misled into trying to gain access to so as to eat… and live forever. The MOST Holy One of Israel does not allow that, however, and brings HIS War… the “Great Day of God ALMIGHTY”… at “Harmageddon,” which is just OUTSIDE the Holy City. Or just outside “access” to God’s people… and True Vine, Christ.
Christ himself, although granted power TO judge… does NOT judge:
John 3:17 – “For God sent forth His Son into the world NOT for him to judge the world, but for the world to be SAVED through him.”
John 5:45 – “Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father; there is one that accuses you, Moses, in whom you have put your hope.”
John 8:15 – “You judge according to the flesh; I DO NOT JUDGE ANY MAN AT ALL.”
John 12:47 – But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I DO NOT JUDGE HIM; for I came, NOT to judge the world, but to SAVE the world.”
Our Lord is NOT king and judge over THIS world, dear PSacramento… but over the kingdom of God. Luke 12:14
I know these things may be hard to believe, given what you have been taught by the “scribes and Pharisees”, the scholars, theologians, leaders, and others of “christianity.” But what I share with you here is true. Flesh and blood did not reveal it to me, but the Holy Spirit, who is our Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the HOLY One of Israel and Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.
May you, too, then, be granted ears to hear the Spirit when he speaks… because it is THAT One that will lead you into ALL truth… and not the writings and interpretations of earthling man.
I bid you both the greatest of love and peace!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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PSacramento
AGuest,
I understand you believe this becayse you do NOT view the word of the bibel as correct and that, in your view, mnay of the verses an dsuch have been translated incorrectly.
That's fine, you choose to view it that way.
That was my point.
Matthew:
"All authority in heaven AND on Earth has been given to me".
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AGuest
(peace to you!). Yes! All authority HAS been given our Lord. BUT... that is his BEAUTY: although he HAS all authority, he does not exploit it! Unlike Satan who DID exploit HIS authority... over the garden.
One example is Joseph, who was appointed over ALL of Pharaoh's household. Yet, he kept his "authority"... to the harvest. Why? Because unlike US... he is TRULY humble and without guile (deceit), etc. He RECEIVES the kingdom BECAUSE of this... BECAUSE he would NEVER use it to its ultimate level. He gives that RIGHT... back to the MOST Holy One of Israel.
Like a son, whose father gives him the keys and codes to... and appoints him over... everything he owns: house, car, business, safe, tools, weapons, employees, bank accounts/safe deposit box, everything. The son KNOWS he can access all of this... but DOESN'T... out of LOVE... and respect for the father, the one who GAVE it all TO him. That is WHY the father APPOINTED this son: because the son PROVED that he wouldn't take advantage of the great privileges given him.
Satan proved just the opposite... and said that, given the opportunity, we would TOO: Ezekiel 28:13-15, 17; Job 8:9-12; 2:3-7
You can get this, dear one. You can. Pray on it. Do not lean on your OWN understanding but approach God through Christ and ASK whether what I am sharing with you is true or not. Then, LISTEN to the Spirit, who will answer you. But you MUST put faith in the answer you receive... and not doubt. In this way, you will get it entirely... and from him, not me.
As always, I bid you the greatest of love and peace!
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... and a slave of Christ,
SA
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jonathan dough
http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#5
AGuest,
Just so we're clear about one thing, the VAST majority of Christians, Catholic and Protestant, disagree with your extremely novel ideas. I hope people realize not to take you too seriously because you're out on a limb.
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PSacramento
I don't think that Aquest is dong anything particulary wrong, she is expressing her opinion and very honestly as she always does.
It may not be "mainstream" but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I agree with her that we have to put more faith in our understanding of scripture as it is guided by the HS, but at the sametime, it doesn't hurt to get more informed opinions (note the plural).
Tha fact is that Aguest only views Jesus as "a god" so I am curious as to if that means "one of many" or what?
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AGuest
May you have peace!
And just so YOU are clear about one thing: I am neither Catholic nor Protestant... orthodox or reformed. I am not JW or LDS. I am not "mainstream" or "fundamental." I AM a member of the Body of Christ, by means of an anointing with holy spirit, and thus belong to the Congregation of the Firstborn... which has ITS enrollment... in heaven... and NOT in some membership ledgers approved by some earthly council, synod, association, organization, bishop, pope, or GB.
I do not claim a religion... nor do I belong to some "church." Along with others, I AM the church... a living stone... in the temple of God... which temple is NOT made by man's hands... but is being built by Christ, its cornerstone... and the stone which those you've named reject.
Again, I bid you peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and Bride say to YOU: "Come! Take life's water.... the holy spirit of God, the MOST Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH of Armies... which is poured out from the innermost parts of HIS rock-mass... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, His Son and Christ, and my Lord and Savior... FREE!"
Your servant and a slave of Christ, the Son of God...
SA
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javig
i am amaze with all the answers and great explanation that christian and jw have...however everything boils down to this...The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father...otherwise Jesus would be praying to himself or have taught us a great lie...which one is it?
I dont have to use greek terminology to explain the fact that Jw believes in two gods...Jehova the Great God and jesus "a god"...rigth there is a contradiction. We(christian) are not saying that Jesus is a god. He is the GOD. If i were a jw witness i have to make a choice in believing in one true God and there is no other gods or believe one true God and another minor god (jesus). The problem is the text in John 1:1 of the jw bible that clearly teaches that jesus is a god and then they tried to explain that way with greek terminology and grammar...i think the best thing to do is change the whole text so no jw would be confuse or anybody else...my coclusion is that jw witness believe in one true God and one minor god...If this is wrong someone correct me.....i know the bible uses the word "god" refering to humans, refering to satan, etc...however the real usage and meaning of the word comes clear with the context...My advice to all jw study biblical hermeneutics. The WT organization never applies those principle in all their teaching neither their followers
How hard is to believe that God became in human form? There is nothing imposible for God. if all jw start with that view then all their confusion, doubts and question will clear...As a bible believing christian i did have my doubts, confusion, and question in believing the Trinity. i did my own research, i reseached other teaching about it that goes in favor and against it. At the end i have to make my own conclusion. which was The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit is God, not Gods, One god. And the bible always make a distinction that the Fahter, Son and Holy Spirit all three diferent persons with the same divinity. Like i asked earlier, what makes a God? You will find the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit having all the qualities to be God, not Gods. ...but wont make sense that there is one God and three person? I agree but that doesn't mean is not truth. Does it make sense that Jesus had to die for the human race? No. but for God it makes perfectly sense. And if it makes perfect sense for God then my job is to humble believe what He has done and said. As i christian i dont fully comprehend the depth of a Triun God but when i see Him face to face i will understand and will learn tru terneity. God is infinite. we will have all eternity to know him...that doesnt make sense but is all good.
Now...i posted the question with the hope that a jw will give an answer. so far they have given me greek, common question about the trinity. but no one has clearly said: "we do believe in the Jehova God and a minor god (jesus)" except;
Aguest
Yes, dear davig (and may you have peace!)...my Lord is a god but we said "we believe in One God, Jesus is the God, Father is the God, Holy Spirit is the God not a god or gods"...if any jw wish to explain in their own words, not using greek grammar, other etaching, using thier own logic thinking and their bible, why Jesus is a god. Here is my [email protected] will read ur explanation and answer you back...
remember explain to me why jesus is a god?
Ephesians 4:5-6
one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.