by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible
Does a person or spirit speak? Does an impersonal force speak?
A person.
Does a person have feelings? Does an impersonal force have feelings?
A person.
Does a person have volition (a will)? Does an impersonal force have volition?
A person.
Can a person intercede (pray)? Can an impersonal force intercede?
A person.
Would you speak of a person using "whom", "he" and such and an impersonal force as "it"?
I don't quite get this one.
Sylvia
One wonders how the JW's believe that the HS is simple and "impersonal force" that comes from God when, it seems, that nothing impersonal coems from God.
Hod gives us Spirit and soul (both personal), God gives us Jesus ( personal), God gives us his word ( personal) and most certainly his love ( personal) and if you are those that believe that God has wraith then he gives us that too (personal), so why would his Divine Spirit be impersonal ?
Why would any spirit given/created bu God be impersonal?
The HS touches us all in different ways ( all th emoer proof that the HS is NOT impersonal), the HS is in us, all of us that receive it/him, but the HS is also in the unbelievers too, working its "magic" and helping us to do what is right for no other reason that because it is right.
How do I know this?
Simple, IF we are to believe that our spirit comes from God when we are born ( and returns to God when we die) as the bible states, then said spirit, coming from God, is Holy and as such, we all (living creatures) have some of the HS in us.
Does a person or spirit speak? Does an impersonal force speak?
A person.
Agreed :) Acts 1:16 Acts 13:2 Acts 21:11 Acts 28:25
Does a person have feelings? Does an impersonal force have feelings?
A person.
Agreed :) Ephesians 4:30 Mark 3:29 Luke 12:10 Hebrews 10:29 Acts 5:3
Does a person have volition (a will)? Does an impersonal force have volition?
A person.
Agreed :) See the other verses here but I am sure there is something specifically written in regard to this if you need it?
Can a person intercede (pray)? Can an impersonal force intercede?
A person.
Agreed! Romans 8:26 Romans 8:27
Would you speak of a person using "whom", "he" and such and an impersonal force as "it"?
I don't quite get this one.
One would use "whom", "he", "him" etc. when referring to a person and "it" when referring to something impersonal.
John 7:39 John 14:26 John 15:26 John 16:7 1 Corinthians 6:19 1 Peter 3:18-19
Can I ask you to take an fresh view on who the Holy Spirit is and what He does? For example, read John 14 and let Him be your guide :)
Blessings,
Stephen
I don't regard the Holy Spirit as impersonal, but how does a person get poured out or fill another?
Sylvia
How does a person get poured out or fill another?
He is Spirit.
Partly, the "pouring out" and "filling" is an analogy. Also, it speaks of something physical to describe what happens spiritually.
Here's another, one gets soaked or baptised in the Spirit Mark 1:8
Or this one Revelation 22:1 However, do not however be surprised to see a literal river when the time comes either!
Can I suggest you watch these and see what you think?
Blessings,
Stephen
I'm sorry; I can't view videos at work, and don't have a home computer.
But, I still fail to see the importance of the Trinity doctrine.
Sylvia
But, I still fail to see the importance of the Trinity doctrine.
Well the WT did a total U turn on the doctrine and is now vehemently opposed to it, that should give you some clue!
Here's some of the important things the WT do not want you to know.
1. Jesus is God.
2. The Holy Spirit is a person, not an impersonal force.
3. The Holy Spirit will speak to you.
4. The Holy Spirit, is the Spirit of Jesus and the Father, and together they are one (God).
5. One need to be born again to enter God's kingdom and led by the Holy Spirit, not by an organisation.
Blessings,
Stephen
dear Aguest...
(re: post 3485) "His SON… the HOLY One of Israel is the “First”… in that he is the firstBORN of all creation as well as the firstBORN (“re-created”) from the dead… never to die again. Every other person resurrected, even by him… died AGAIN. He was resurrected ONCE… to eternal life. The FIRST one this occurred for."
why did Jesus have to be re-created?...
the body of Jesus did not see corruption...which is why He is the propitiation for our sins. which is why we can be changed in a twinkling of an eye at His return...not re-created...which would involve our characteristics being inserted into another creation...(think of the purification laws that the Jewish priests had to follow before ministering to God)...but we are told that in Christ we ARE a new creation...
+ if the Holy Spirit(the Spirit of Truth) is Jesus(the Truth) then who revealed to peter that Jesus is the Son of the Living God...was it some other "Spirit of Truth" ?(matthew 16:17)...because it wasn't flesh and blood which Jesus(the Truth) was.
also...why isn't it any of your concern if "your dearest" people "hear" you or not...if Jesus is reaching out to HIS lost through you shouldn't there be some concern...shouldn't there infact be an obvious pleading that reflects the aching burden on your heart that mirrors the True Sheperd's heart?
the one thing that I HAVEN'T noticed in your theology is a BODY...unless the only "body of Christ" is your wagging index finger saying no, no, no...you've got it wrong...you blasphemers who hope to gain any "correct" insight through the scriptures. you see, you ask us to turn to a spirit for salvation...the scriptures ask us to turn to Jesus, the Man, for our COMPLETE salvation and forgiveness of sins. (acts 13:35-41)...therein lies the hard part for "man" to overcome.
I love you.
michelle
May you have peace!
why did Jesus have to be re-created?...the body of Jesus did not see corruption...which is why He is the propitiation for our sins. which is why we can be changed in a twinkling of an eye at His return...not re-created...which would involve our characteristics being inserted into another creation...(think of the purification laws that the Jewish priests had to follow before ministering to God)...but we are told that in Christ we ARE a new creation...
Wow, dear MyE... I thought, "Wait! What did I hear; what did you TELL me? Did I not hear correctly, Lord? Did I misspeak? Praise JAH, the answer to BOTH… is "no." Okay, here is the TRUTH:
My Lord's flesh DID "see corruption," as that term applies in one instance (there are others). God sent him "in the likeness of sinFUL flesh"... flesh that could hold sin and death IN it... which is how he was able to take the "sins" and death of those he cured INTO it... and take that with him to the grave... when he DIED. Incorruptible flesh... does not have sin IN it... nor can it HOLD sin IN it... and does not DIE. It does not experience the "sting" of death.
When my Lord died... in the flesh... that flesh literally died (the word of the Holy Spirit is, if it hadn't died literally, it would not have needed to be... resurrected. And that is what is meant by the word "re-created." The [corruptible] flesh that he had that DIED... was CHANGED... to be [incorruptible] flesh... that would never die... AG AIN. Others who were resurrected were resurrect to CORRUPTIBLE flesh... and so it died... again. Thus, his FLESH ... that which came from Mary... which, as a result, WAS created (because it came from a creation, a woman of flesh)... was "re-created."
And what about the verses that state he did NOT "see corruption." The word of my Lord is that it is different word.... with a different meaning. Sort of like "read"... and "read"... in English. Apparently, there is "corruption" that refers to that which is corruptible. Such things have "corruption"... "sin" and "death"... IN them. Then, there is "corruption" that is "destruction" and/or the "pit." When quoting Psalms, this is what Peter was speaking about at Acts 2:31, and Paul at Acts 13:35, 36. While my Lord DID indeed see corruption, in that his flesh SAW sin... AND death... he did not "see corruption" in that he was taken to pit and/or destroyed.
Here's are the etymologies:
As used by Peter at Acts 2:31 and Paul at Acts 13:35, 36, the word "corruption" is the Greek word diaphthora, which matches Strong's Number G1312, which means:
1) corruption, destruction
2) in the NT that destruction which is effected by the decay of the body after death
Problem is, the same word "corruption" is used by Paul at 1 Corinthians 15:50; however, THERE... the Greek word is phthora, which matches Strong's Number G5356, and means:
1) corruption, destruction, perishing
a) that which is subject to corruption, what is perishable
b) in the Christian sense, eternal misery in hell
2) in the NT, in an ethical sense, corruption i.e. moral decay
When Peter and Paul were quoting my Lord, they were referring to Psalm 16:10, 11. There it states, "neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. " The word "corruption" THERE... the Hebrew word is "shachath," which matches Strong's Number H7845, and means:
1) pit, destruction, grave
a) pit (for catching lions)
b) pit (of Hell)
Now, we KNOW the term "grave" isn't correct, because my Lord did go to the grave. And we know "Hell" isn't entirely correct, because he did go to Sheol and bore witness to the spirits there. BUT... he did not go to the PIT of Sheol... TARTARUS... the PLACE... where SPIRITS that SIN... are "reserved"… for judgment… and destruction. Luke 8:31; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 3:19
So, while my Lord himself was not re-created... his flesh was… after he took to the grave the sin and death that was IN it, which sin and death he received from those he healed. That is HOW he healed them: by taking THEIR imperfections into HIS body… and taking them to the grave with him. The Lamb of God… that TAKES AWAY… the sin of the world. John 1:29; Isaiah 53:3, 3; Leviticus 16:8, 10, 22
if the Holy Spirit(the Spirit of Truth) is Jesus(the Truth) then who revealed to peter that Jesus is the Son of the Living God...was it some other "Spirit of Truth" ?...because it wasn't flesh and blood which Jesus(the Truth) was.
No, it was the Father Himself. When John [the Baptizer] saw “holy spirit” coming down upon my Lord when he came up from the Jordan, John didn’t hear that spirit speak. He heard the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself speak. Matthew 3:16, 17 It was He who revealed to Peter that my Lord was His Son. That’s why Peter SAID: “You are the Christ, the SON… of the living God.” It is not often that the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself speaks… but He does speak. Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:12, 13
also...why isn't it any of your concern if "your dearest" people "hear" you or not...if Jesus is reaching out to HIS lost through you shouldn't there be some concern...shouldn't there in fact be an obvious pleading that reflects the aching burden on your heart that mirrors the True Shepherd's heart?
To some degree, dear MyE, yes. BUT… it is not I who draw… or choose… such ones. So, whether such ones hear ME… or not… is IRRELEVANT. I… am NOT the one they SHOULD be listening to. It is my Lord, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel who they should be listening to.
Yes, like the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, my Lord and master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… I wish ALL would hear. I wish ALL would get the sense of these things and come to him… and ASK FOR FAITH… so as to HEAR him. The wonders that all would see and hear!! Imagine the day when the prophesy at Jeremiah 31:34 comes true, when “they will NO MORE teach each one his companion… for they will ALL of them KNOW” the MOST Holy One of Israel… AND His Son… from the least one of us… to the greatest! Yes, may that day come!
In the meantime, I cannot let myself get offended when there is opposition. And because I AM yet flesh with its blood, there is that danger. To my own detriment, and that of Israel, which is a hard-hearted, hard-headed, stiff-necked people… who can be TOUGH. So, at times, I am made to be as some of his other servants. Isaiah 50:7; Ezekiel 3:9
the one thing that I HAVEN'T noticed in your theology is a BODY...unless the "body of Christ" is your wagging index finger saying no, no, no...you've got it wrong...you blasphemers who hope to gain any "correct" insight through the scriptures.
NO - LOLOLOLOL! You have it right - LOLOLOLOL! (And I TRULY hope you don't perceive me as "wagging my finger saying no, no, no... you blasphemers!!" I TRULY do not mean to come of in such a way at all! I mean, I know there are times when the SPIRIT warns someone, but, dear Lord, no, I don't think of ANYONE that way (well, excluding the "WTBTS" and one some time ago... ).
As for the body... there is the “christ”… the “chosen/anointed one of God”… which is made up of the Head, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… whom we refer to as “the Christ”… AND the Body [of Christ], which is made up of 144,000 from among the sons of Israel AND a great crowd which no man is able to number out of every nation, tribe, tongue, and people… including those of Israel who were NOT of the 144,000…
you see, you ask us to turn to a spirit for salvation...
N ot quite, dear one. I am to ask you... and DO ask you... to LISTEN to a Spirit… which SPIRIT… is the Christ:
“Now the Lord is the Spirit…” 2 Corinthians 3:17
the scriptures ask us to turn to Jesus, the Man, for our COMPLETE salvation and forgiveness of sins. (acts 13:35-41)...therein lies the hard part for "man" to overcome.
The scriptures ask us to turn to JAHESHUA, who is a SPIRIT man, for our complete salvation and forgiveness of sins… which SPIRIT man… is also the glorified Holy Spirit (which is why my Lord referred to him as “he” – he could yet say, “the Father will send ME…” because “it” had not be “been accomplished” yet – John 19:30). There is the physical man… who died… and the SPIRIT man… who was raised up… and ascended. There are “earthling” men... and then there are “heavenly” men:
“The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.” 1 Corinthians 15:47
The MOST Holy One of Israel is also a man (male)... and female (which is another thread entirely).
I love you.
Yes, my spirit bears witness to this truth, dear Michelle, and I totally receive it. I love you, as well (you have always been SO kind to me!)… and bid you the GREATEST of God’s love… and Christ’s peace… you and your entire household… to time indefinite.
YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
Shel
THE SON OF MAN- IntroductionIn the last two Perspectives, we examined the question of whether or not Jesus said He was God. Is there hard evidence proving that Jesus claimed to be God?
THE SON OF MAN- Origin of the Title
Looking at the Bible, we find that Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man no less than 82 times. This title comes from Daniel 7, which speaks of a figure, Israel personified, who will rule over the nations of the earth for all time. In that passage, we read that the Son of Man “was given authority, glory and even sovereign power” — things that God alone, the One who said, “I will not give my glory to another” ( Isa. 42:8 ; 48:11 ) — can hold and exercise.
THE SON OF MAN- The Son of Man will be worshipped Furthermore, we find that “all peoples, and all nations and men of every language will worship” the Son of Man, which would only make sense if the Son of Man is none other than God Himself. God sternly forbids the worship of anyone or anything other than Himself. We can thereby conclude that Jesus, in calling Himself the Son of Man, was indeed claiming to be God.
THE SON OF MAN- God's Infinite Knowledge Jesus reinforces this conclusion each time He claims to be unique, the Son of God, the only One Who knows God the Father. Consider this: if God’s depth of knowledge and understanding is infinite, Who but God alone can fully grasp it? Yet Jesus says He knows.
THE SON OF MAN- Blasphemy or Truth? The Jews tried to stone Him because in “calling God His own Father, Jesus was making Himself equal with God” (John 5:18). To this charge, Jesus merely replied that “All are to honor the Son just as they honor the Father.” In other words, Jesus claimed the honor due Him is equivalent to the honor due God. Such a statement is sheer blasphemy unless Jesus was, in fact, God.
THE SON OF MAN- Conclusion We’ve only scratched the surface in this segment, so I want you to be sure and tune in to the next two Perspectives — we will continue to explore how Jesus claimed that He was, in fact, God.
