Social Influence Part I, II (page 3)

waiting

Well, thanks, larc!

My son said the same thing.....size up the prof. This guy does ask questions, and I do what I did in the KH, keep my hand down until I wait a while, look around and see if anybody else has their hand up.....or speaks out. If no response, I feel I have the right to answer. Like you said, he's grading and it's my money.

However, it would help if I had the right answer.

The prof. really seems ok, pretty laid back. I haven't challenged him, but another woman has. She was "kinda" wrong, and he was nice about it. She came back with information where she could be construed as "kinda" right. Someone else suggested she keep her information to herself or go up to him *after* class. She took their suggestion. LOL - so would I.

waiting

Hmmm

Larc,

I enjoyed your post. I saw a piece on TV a while back that duplicated the Zimbardo test. Pretty disturbing stuff.

I want to ask about the Rorschach test.

If I took a Rorschach test and said every image was something light and fluffy and calm and beautiful, what would be my diagnosis? ("Oh my, he saw the butterfly. He saw the butterfly. 'Nancy, code red. I repeat. Code red.' Now just sit there and stare at the pretty butterfly, Mr Hmmm, while we slip this nice white jacket on.")

What if I said they were all chaotic?

What if I just looked for something in the physical world that they most closely resembled? (uh... I see.... a router bit")

What if I said to every picture "It looks like ink randomly splattered on a piece of paper, then folded in half."
Next picture: "Same thing."
Next picture: "Same thing."

Maybe I'm too cynical. Maybe it's a hold-over from my "we're the happiest people on earth; we don't need psychological help" days. Who knows. Still, I've always thought those types of tests were $150 fleece jobs.

I don't mean to belittle your line of work and interest, and I find the behavioral studies very interesting. But you said that Rorschach tests work, and I'm interested in how... especially when I see on the web that after 80 years, there are still competing schools of thought as to how the test should be interpreted.

Hmmm

larc

Hmmm,

Your questions require a great deal of dialogue to give justice to those questions. My answers will not be in the order you asked them, but is a logical flow for me.

First of all, I am not sure where and when I said the Rorschach is valid, but that observation is beside the point. The Rorschach is a very controversial test among Psychologists. Among practitioners, diagnosticians there is great belief in it. Among researchers their is great skepticism as to the value of the test.

Now you possed the question as to what your different responses would mean. You mentioned the calm and fluffy that you interprete as good and the percept of a butterfly as possibly a bad thing. The fact is, neither are necessarily good or bad. A great deal depends on the quality of the percept (does that blot or that part of it look like what the person says). Every response to the Rorschach has four scores. Area - did you use the whole blot, part of it, or a small detail? Determinant - what about the blot led you to see what you saw? Content - what category does your percept fall? Creative or Popular - creative defined as one response in a hundred with good perceptual definition. A popular response is the one that is seen most often. By the way, in your example, a butterfly is often seen on Card 5 of the Rorschach, although it is not the most popular response.

You pose a lot of "what if" questions regarding what you might see. Fact is, you can't really control what you do see. You could lie of course, but since most people don't know the test or it's norms, they wouldn't know how to fake it.

Well, that is enough for now.

Hmmm

Interesting. Thanks for the response.

(Gotta remember: Butterfly on number 5... butterfly on number 5. I feel like I'm studying for a test.)

Hmmm

waiting

Howdy larc,

I went to Zimbardo's website, where there's a picture & word presentation (and sound clips if you like) of his 1970's prison experiment. I found it interesting that he put so much documentation into his part of the experiment. He was the prison superintendent (I think) which actually put him in the experiment - and in the middle of the week long experiement - one of his collegues asked what was his "control" for the experiment. He said he got very angry as he had a prison to run - not talk about "psychology controls!" {his quote.}

He had gotten waaaaaaay too far into his roll playing -as he said. I guess one of the points would be is that it's so incredibly easy to fall into roll playing and within a short time - it becomes a total reality, seemingly against all reason and instinct.

My psych prof. had a tough time getting some in class to buy into the fact that we, depending upon the circumstances, can be driven much more by the circumstances & others with us - than our own instincts and emotions.

We are social beings. Thanks for the review.

waiting

teejay

Cool thread.

waiting

Howdy larc,

Just a note on Milgram's study about human nature - and another aspect of human nature. The prof. showed a clip from one of Milgram's experiments - where the "teacher" was sitting, and the guy in the white lab coat was standing over him with clipboard, then the teacher's hand flipped a switch. The "learner" yelled "I want out of here - this is an experiment and it hurts."

The white coat told the teacher to disregard, as the learner had to be taught to learn...another question answered wrong....and a significantly higher perceived voltage was given to the learner. He screamed repeatedly, beating on the walls to get out.

It was terrifying to see the teacher willing submit to give intense pain to another human just for "giving the wrong answer" - and to willingly obey a white coat authority figure.

I held it together that long. What really got me was some in the class, particularily the young males, laughing out loud. I understand it was most likely nervousness - as the man next to me laughed, and continually jerked his foot at the same time.

But to a violent incest survivor - it was beyond my control to listen to the screams (albeit staged), watch a person in a type of "real tv" causing that terrific pain, and people laughing over this fact. I just couldn't stay detached.

I walked out. Thankfully, I'm much better than I used to be, because I was able to walk back in later. Pretty much set up the rest of my day as a funk, however.

I think it'd be great if a prof., before presenting a sensitive subject, particularily if it contains portions of real emotions of causing pain and violence/torture (the "teachers") - were to strongly suggest to their in-class students to not laugh about it. Someone might have been in the position of the "learner" more than once in their lives - and is trying to learn why it happened.

Just venting to a professional, btw.

waiting

ps: Unless I can overcome this problem, I guess I won't sign up for more classes. Just not worth it. I guess I'm putting it on the forum because there are others like me - and it might help to be forwarned.

patio34

Hi Waiting,

((((((((((Waiting)))))))))))

Love,
Pat

teejay

((Waiting)),

I don’t think you have a “problem.” You are who and what you are and that's all there is to that. I wish I could say that your professor was a little insensitve, but I’d guess he had no way of knowing (or believing) that someone in his class had gone through what you have. To him, it was all a cold, matter-of-fact classroom exercise... a film that he thought might be instructive to his students. I’m sure that if he had known...

I’m continually amazed that you are the quite remarkable person you are. The other day, I heard a quote, something like “every life is a victory.” I’d apply that quote to you... sho’ nuff.

Peace.

one

larc,

that is what the wt has been saying for a long time the world is being "controlled". But they dont admit they also are being controlled, as a group, in some other ways (or in the same way?).

Social Influence Part I, II

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