2 Questions For AGuest : )))

by snowbird 60 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

    Exactly, dear JoeM (and may you have peace). He didn't READ it somewhere. He HEARD it. Directly from the Father. And Peter... put FAITH... "in the thing HEARD." And he HEARD it... BEFORE my Lord asked him the question... BEFORE James and John heard it. He heard it... in the same way as John [the Baptizer]:... BEFORE others who were with him heard it. John 1:33, 34; Matthew 3:17

    He heard it the same way John [the Baptizer] heard it: from the Father... which is in heaven.

    I bid you peace!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    He didn't READ it somewhere. He HEARD it.

    Aguest,

    This assumes that Peter was there at that Baptism. Where is your proof? We know that John the Baptist was there and what did John or anyone else that was present hear? Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Or in John we learn: John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. Peter heard nothing at this baptism. I know since it was not a direct revelation from the Father in heaven as you teach. Our Lord's words to Peter meant something else. How do I know this. Because John in this same chapter of this Gospel revealed it like this: 1:40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). That is the truth and John recorded it for us. Then what did Jesus mean when he said "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." We know that it was Andrew a man of flesh and blood, but our Lord took this further and taught that it was not Andrew that caused Peter to come to this conclusion. Peter came to this conclusion another way. After all our Lord referred to the words in scripture as being from the Father and they do speak to us all even today. In that case Peter heard it the way John the Baptiser heard his message from the Father who is in heaven that was responsible for such texts. We know this since Jesus said about such writings: Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” Or Paul who said: Ro 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith— 2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. This is Jewish terminology, the way they thought and spoke. I cannot believe what you are saying about Peter. I believe what Jesus taught about scripture and the way Jesus understood Peter came this conclusion.

    Joseph

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    Edited...posted too soon..

    Salvation does not come from written words, but from THE WORD, who is Christ. It is not by means of study, or “taking in knowledge” that one gains life…but through a relationship with God… Knowing Him personally Written words (the Bible) have limitations, and have been subject to editing over the centuries.

    1 Corinthians 8

    1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. [ a ] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God.

    Bible: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

    John 17:3

    3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

    John 17:3 (New International Version)

    3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    There is a huge difference between knowing God and having knowledge about Him. Knowing Him is where Salvation is found. The nwt version of this scripture is one of the things that showed me they didn't have "the Truth".

    Coffee

  • coffee_black
  • Son of Man
    Son of Man

    The Almighty GOD has no beginning or no end and is the beginning and the end; The Alpha and The Omega. He is the all knowing for all that there is to know. Imagine if you will a perfect circle, it has no beginning or no end, so does it mean that GOD is circular? Does it mean that HE was just there and was not created or begat? Perhaps a being came into existence based upon all that exists. Perhaps this being grew and became intelligent over a period of time overtaking all in existence. In order to have control over all that exists you have to be more powerful than it correct?

    All I know is that I exist and whatever I see around me as well. I do not believe in something I cannot see such as particles too small for the naked eye to see. However when man proves that it does exists then there is a bases for me to believe. Perfect order in life forms although in an imperfect state for now proves that there is intelligence out there. One higher than me because I cannot explain my existence other than someone created my species.

    Read what the bible says because it fortells the future. Come to know GOD by what you read about Him always giving way to the benefit of the doubt where you do not understand what you read. All in all we all have the same ability to form thought processes and feel emotions so all creation is similar. That in itself is prove that life is based upon law or the Word of GOD.

    What does "Worship" mean? It means that we follow the Word of the One who created us, or His Laws.......

    t.f.d.s.

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    To me it's like reading several biographies about a person, written by different authors with different opinions. Reading them may spark interest in the the life of that person... but getting to meet that person and develop a lasting friendship...well that would change everything. You would be able see how accurate or inaccurate the biographies were.

    Coffee

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    AMEN and AMEN!!... and the GREATEST of love and peace to you!!

    It is SO good for me to know that I am not alone in knowing... or being known by our heavenly Father... or His precious Son... here in this place. Yes, I know there are others. Many others! Thus, to you... indeed, to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... those who HEAR... and those who are yet wishing to hear (to whom I say do NOT lose hope! Your request WILL be answered! Therefore, KEEP asking, KEEP knocking, KEEP seeking... and it WILL be "opened" to you! !!):

    May the undeserved kindness and mercy of OUR God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name IS JAH... of Armies... and the LOVE and PEACE of His Son and Christ... OUR Lord, Master, and Savior... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... you and your ENTIRE households... to time indefinite! I look forward to YOUR "revealing"... and mine... before ALL creation!

    PRAISE JAH, you people! Let every living thing... let every living BREATHING thing... let it Praise JAH!

    Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Shelby..

    Check your PM`s..

    ..............

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    At the outset, please know that you misunderstand me...

    This assumes that Peter was there at that Baptism. Where is your proof? We know that John the Baptist was there and what did John or anyone else that was present hear? Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Well, although it is possible that Peter WAS there... that is NOT what I was directed to say at all. What I was directed to say is that Peter LEARNED what he did... in the SAME way the John [the Baptizer] learned what HE did: directly FROM God... "who is in the heavens." The MOST Holy One of Israel spoke to Peter... just as He did to John... when revealing who it was that was His Son. True, BOTH had read the prophecies. But it was GOD'S VOICE... that validated what they themselves came to KNOW.

    Or in John we learn: John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    Okay, so you have the Apostle John's record of what John [the Baptizer] said... God SAID... to HIM... long before His spirit descended upon my Lord. Yes?

    Peter heard nothing at this baptism.

    I did not say he had, nor did the Holy Spirit ever to direct me to say that he did. Or that he was present. Please, go back and read what I was directed to write. Keep in mind, though, that perhaps, for you... it is a thing "hard to understand." If so, it is not only because you didn't read it well... but because YOUR HEARING... is DULL. It is not MY words you should be concerned about; you SHOULD have asked the Holy Spirit and then listened to what HE told you. You didn't, however, because you don't have your faith in THAT ONE... but in the book that speaks ABOUT that One.

    I know since it was not a direct revelation from the Father in heaven as you teach.

    I teach nothing on this matter. I only shared what I heard and was directed to share. That same Spirit directs me to now ask you: how is it that you KNOW this? Because it isn't "written"? I am to direct YOU... to John 21:25 and ask, if EVERYTHING the Christ did was not put down in writing, why would you assume that EVERYTHING the MOST Holy One of Israel did was? Peter DID receive a DIRECT revelation as to whom my Lord was... when he was asked. We KNOW that... because my Lord is recorded to have SAID that:

    flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

    Now, the Spirit directs me to ask YOU... and YOU reply... if you know... how WAS it revealed to Peter... if NONE of the "books" of the Bible that REVEAL him... were WRITTEN at the time the question was ASKED? Matthew was not written until after my Lord had come... and gone... in the flesh. What SCRIPTURE directly identified the One that ASKED Peter who he was... TO Peter? John [the Baptizer] was given a "sign" (the spirit of God coming down on my Lord). What "sign" was Peter given... so that HE could say... WITH A CERTAINTY... "You are the Son of God?" How did HE know that the One asking him was IN FACT that Son? The Son himself TELLS you:

    flesh and bloodhath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

    Did my Lord go on to say, "revealed it to you through the Scriptures?" No, he did not.

    Our Lord's words to Peter meant something else. How do I know this. Because John in this same chapter of this Gospel revealed it like this: 1:40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). That is the truth and John recorded it for us.

    SOOOOooooo, you are saying that flesh and blood (Peter's brother, Andrew, who was... without a DOUBT... flesh and blood) DID in fact reveal it to Peter? I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to ask: are you SURE you want to say that?

    Then what did Jesus mean when he said "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." We know that it was Andrew a man of flesh and blood, but our Lord took this further and taught that it was not Andrew that caused Peter to come to this conclusion. Peter came to this conclusion another way. After all our Lord referred to the words in scripture as being from the Father and they do speak to us all even today.

    You ARE saying that! Because even if you're saying that Peter himself CONCLUDED this truth... you are saying that flesh and blood (Peter, a man of FLESH AND BLOOD)... revealed it to himself! Again, I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to ASK: are you SURE you want to say that? And if so, I am to warn you: such a statement is BLASPHEMY... against the Holy Spirit! For my LORD said that it was our heavenly Father who revealed such to Peter. But YOU are saying that that is NOT the case... that Peter heard it from a man... of flesh and blood... his brother, Andrew... and upon hearing it... concluded... in himself... a man... of flesh and blood... that my Lord was the Son. Again, I must ask you: are you absolutely sure this is what you want to say? Personally, I BEG you... reconsider. Reconsider that PERHAPS you may be wrong in this... that how you are "seeing" is an error... even perhaps a GRAVE error... and reconsider.

    Please, dear Joe... think on this again. The MOST Holy One of Israel is merciful. HE knows whether or not you truly MEANT a thing... whether it was TRULY a thing in your heart... or simply human error... as a result of not seeing or hearing... and thus not understanding. The Holy Spirit has had me ask you THREE times, however... so that it your heart that will be examined as you respond. THINK ABOUT YOUR RESPONSE.

    In that case Peter heard it the way John the Baptiser heard his message from the Father who is in heaven that was responsible for such texts. We know this since Jesus said about such writings: Joh 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

    John heard it directly from the Father. John 1:33

    Be that as it may, my Lord was referring to the writings of Moses... not writings of Matthew. MOSES writings were "scripture." Luke 24:27, 32, 44, 45 He COULDN'T HAVE been referring to anything else, certainly not the account in Matthew, Luke or John... because, besides the fact that they are NOT "scripture," THOSE HAD NOT BEEN WRITTEN YET.

    Or Paul who said: Ro 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

    Here again is the "problem" with READING... versus LISTENING, dear Joe. The word of the Holy Spirit is that here you have quoted part of an account, which part quoted by you serves only to support your assertion. If, however, you had quoted the ENTIRE account, you would see that what you are asserting is an error. It states:

    "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery , which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made knownto all nationsfor the obedience of faith:"

    Paul's words are NOT asserting that the CHRIST was disclosed and made known to the nations "through the prophetic writings." He was SAYING that the MYSTERY/SACRED SECRET... which had been kept secret and which the nations had learned of THROUGH (the prophetic writings... was now being made manifest... BECAUSE OF, BY MEANS OF, and THROUGH Christ. And what is that MYSTERY/SACRED SECRET? That by means of Christ... although the nations WOULD be taken in... ALL OF ISRAEL WOULD STILL BE SAVED.

    Prior to this, those of the nations knew they, too, would be taken into a covenant with God. Isaiah 55:5 What they DIDN'T know was that although they would replace SOME of Israel... due to THEIR (the nation's) FAITH... and Israel's LACK of faith... the SECRET was that ALL of Israel would STILL be saved. The LAW Covenant was only between God and Israel (and those who went with Israel). The NEW Covenant also took in people of the nations. THIS is what Chapters 11 to 16of the letter to the Romans was ABOUT. Chapters 1 through 10 are to the "holy ones," those of Israel, and particularly the Jews, who accepted Christ:

    "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called an apostle... To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 1:1, 7

    He does not address the NATIONS until the 13th verse of Chapter 11, from which point, he reveals to THEM... the mystery/sacred secret as it applies to THEM:

    "Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand thismystery , brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved...;" Romans 11:25, 26

    All of Israel would saved... because they had a Deliverer, Christ. But the mystery was NOT the Christ... it was that ALL Israel would be saved. Paul had to reveal this "mystery" because the people of the nations had began "lording it over" the Jews! They knew they had been taken into a New Covenant... in the PLACE of Israel. And so, they began to think they were in fact BETTER than the Jews. Paul called them on this and told them, "Not so fast... just they were grated out [of the True Vine], and you grated in... you can be grafted right back out, again, so you'd better take care as to how you treat them." Romans 11:13-35

    The word of the Holy Spirit to YOU... is that you would know ALL of this... if you would only condescend to LISTEN. You would neither a book... NOR flesh and blood... to relate it to you, for he himself would do so. But the choice is always yours. We are not FORCED to listen to him - we must CHOOSE to do it.

    2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. This is Jewish terminology, the way they thought and spoke.

    And THIS is why putting your faith in the Bible is futile: at the one place, Paul (?) is recorded to have said what you have quoted above. And, yet, at ANOTHER place he (?) is recorded to have said:

    "Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in speech, and not like Moses, {who} used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remainsunlifted... because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read,a veil lies over their heart; butwhenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same imagefrom glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:12-16

    I cannot believe what you are saying about Peter.

    In that case, says the Holy Spirit... your blindness will remain

    I believe what Jesus taught about scripture and the way Jesus understood Peter came this conclusion.

    The scriptures... bear witness to Christ. The MOST Holy One of Israel... reveals him. Unlike your conclusion, which means... flesh and blood... DID reveal it to Peter... and not our Father who is in heaven. Again, I, your servant, exhort you to THINK about what you are saying... and teaching others.

    I, SA, have shared these truths with you, just as I received them from and have been directed by the Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCJAH, who is my Lord and Master and the Holy One of Israel, Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies.

    I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    What I was directed to say is that Peter LEARNED what he did... in the SAME way the John [the Baptizer] learned what HE did: directly FROM God... "who is in the heavens." The MOST Holy One of Israel spoke to Peter... just as He did to John... when revealing who it was that was His Son. True, BOTH had read the prophecies. But it was GOD'S VOICE... that validated what they themselves came to KNOW.

    AGuest,

    And I said where is your proof? We have validation for God's voice in scripture like this: Mt 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” It is not necessary to write paragraphs to prove this. It is not necessary to run all over the bible to make a simple point like this. Where is the verse that says God;s voice validated what they learned? It has already been shown that the scriptures serve this purpose for us. I am not impressed with statements like: I am to warn you: such a statement is BLASPHEMY... You cannot forgive sins or raise me from death. Nor can you prevent our Lord from doing that.

    You said: "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery , which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made knownto all nationsfor the obedience of faith:"

    Even your own paraphrase disagrees with your assumptions. It states clearly that "now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God" and not by the voice of God from heaven as you insist. You have not provided any material in support of your view. Why should anyone listen to you especially when you say things that are not true like this.

    You said; Unlike your conclusion, which means... flesh and blood... DID reveal it to Peter... and not our Father who is in heaven.

    Everyone reading this thread knows that I did not come to this conclusion. The error is yours.

    Joseph

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