HELP I need some ex-elders help for a phone conversation with my JW parents

by cyberjesus 28 Replies latest jw experiences

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Ok this is the deal: I was Dfd 14 years ago, I was just planning to go back last year. I had planned to come back with a clean conscience so I started to study and research the WT to prove to myself this was the TRUTH, the elders had met with me to suggest me to submit a letter of reinstatement, in the same meeting I told them i had some questions that I needed help with before i was to go back. They said they were gonna answer those questions after I was reinstated :-D so I went by myself and started doing my research. Within a week I found the Truth about the truth and stopped attending the meetings. I contacted my Dad who is an elder in Mexico and told him I needed to talk to him ASAP. (yeah I panicked)

    In the meantime I talked to my uncle who is JW here and although he said he was gonna keep it for himself he spread it like gangrene. Now my parents and several aunts and uncles think that I am an apostate :-) My parents are coming this next week and i was planning to talk to them slowly.. ( I just finished reading Steven Hassan's RELEASING THE BONDS) so I was planning to do a 3 step intervention with them but now they are coming along with my sister who is very JW opionated.

    The are coming in 3 days and Im getting nervous. I am planning to start showing them my incoditional love, asking them questions to make them think (following Hassans suggestions) and I think it would be great if I could talk to some Ex-elders that could tell their story (if I get that far with my parents)

    I dont know, do you have any ideas?

  • asilentone
    asilentone

    Good Luck! (BTW, I was never an elder, but was MS for 3 years)

  • alanv
    alanv

    Why would they think you are an apostate if you want to go back to the org? It shouldn't matter to them what you were doing while you were out, it is the future that counts.

    Having said that you need to think very seriously about going back. Are you going back so you can have contact with your family (which I can completely understand) or are you going back because you really do think they are teaching the truth.

    If it is the latter I strongly suggest you check out books or websites written by exwitnesses. The best book for any witness or exwitness to read is 'Crisis of Conscience' by Ray Franz who was a member of their governing body. It is not a bitter or vengeful at all, it simply tells people what really goes on behond the scenes.

    It is ridiculous they wouldn't answer your questions until you were formally accepted back. Very unchristlike.

    By the way I was not an elder but MS and pioneer for 10 years. Good luck

  • Awen
    Awen

    Unfortunately it does matter to some Elders what you were doing while you were out, even if you have stopped. When I was in the East Congregation in Moline, IL seeking reinstatement 3 years ago, I was informed by one of the Elders (not the PO, but someone with "pull") that because I had been involved in Paganism after I was Disfellowshipped, that I would have to wait longer for reinstatement than for the immorality I was originally DFed for 10 years before that. I pleaded my case that I was no longer practicing that and had been out of it for a year prior to seeking reinstatement and that it shouldn't matter. I came to learn from this Elder that because of my pagan practices, in his opinion I would NEVER be reinstated. I got mad and then pointed out to him how certain persons like Solomon had gotten involved in such things but that Jesus still spoke of him as a good example or like certain Kings of Israel who got involved in such things but later repented were forgiven by God. Why couldn't the Elders do the same. basically I screwed up by mentioning all the particulars of my past and making the comparison between the Pharisiees of old and the Elders today.

    So be careful what you tell them about what you've been up to. In my opinion, you don't have to confess anything to them, only to Jesus, who is our mediator, not the Elders nor GB. I also wouldn't imply that you have already confessed your sins to God and see no reason to tell the Elders about it, as they won't see it that way.

    You've basically just been inactive and because of that, you've missed out of some JW literature and not having access to a KH library there are some questions you've had which need answering. They may allow you to use the KH library where you can do your own research without exposing your true intentions. If you ask "Apostate" questions, they will discern what you are up to or at least assume you are up to no good and treat you accordingly.

    BTW, mentioning others who have these similiar problems and or questions will send up red flags with the Elders. They will ask for the names of these ones, to see if they can be contacted in other congregations or to discern where you got your info. If you cannot provide that info, they will assume you got it off a website like this one and will figure you for an apostate and terminate the visit and destroy any hope you might have of reinstatement. The fact that your uncle blabbed shows very clearly the attitude amongst the Elders. They aren't interested in providing you with answers, they are interested in controlling you and if they cannot do that then they will make an example of you to everyone else.

    If you have found the Truth about the Truth, I would cut my losses and cancel the appointment and be honest about it, so as to not waste your time or theirs and be clear that you do not wish anymore contact with them.

    If you decide to try to intervene with your family, I would do it on a one-to-one basis. Having them all at once will overwhelm you, hence the reason JC's do not allow people to bring family or friends along into the meeting. This way they can each bombard you with several questions at once, keep you off-balance and unable to mount a proper defense of what you believe. Unless of course you ask them to submit their questions one at a time and stop others from interjecting their opinions before you fully explain your answer. Make sure you do this, as they will often re-direct the conversations and cause you to forget your thought and then come back to that same question and note how you left it incomplete as if you were hiding something. It's been my experience with JC"S that you are guilty, the committee itself is just an information gathering tool so that records can be kept, so as to be able to hold it against you later. There are some Elders who are exempt from this, but personally, I treat them as hostile, remembering that they are not my friends. Their attitudes usually give them away. They see it as a mission from God to expose you (even if you are innocent) and put you on trial and convict you. This way they can feel like they have kept YHWH's organization clean by keeping out corrupting influences, EVEN IF your questions mirror some they have privately had.

    If the thought of all these people coming to visit you makes you nervous, then you are not ready for any type of intervention. You have to be sure of what you think and feel and hold onto it no matter what. The mere fact of your panicking shows you won't be able to withstand the pressure.

    My advice is to refrain from speaking to your Uncle again about this subject, and insist to the Elders that he blew it out of proprtion. Recall your conversation with your uncle and try to ascertain what you said and whether those words could have a double meaning in certain contexts, then choose the subjects that reflects positively on the Truth and go with it. Insist to the Elders that your Uncle must have misunderstood what you were saying. DO NOT suggest your uncle is guilty of deceit, he's after all an Elder and his word will carry more weight than yours, but rather that it was a misunderstanding. they won't tell you what he said, or at the very least they will change ever so slightly what he said to see if you correct them. If you do not correct the conversational points, then they will think you deceitful (when they know what the convo actually entailed and to see how your version differs) and willfully trying to mislead them, which you are, but not in the way they perceive. Doing this puts them in a position where they are more likely to apologize for your Uncle and agree that it must have been a misunderstanding. This will then cast suspicion on your Uncle (which they will either talk to again, to see if his story has remained the same, or changed, which would indicate lying) and will be appropriate payback for him not keeping his silence as he said he would.

    Give the same explanation to your family that your Uncle misunderstood your words. Do not mention that you asked him to keep the matter confidential, as this will imply there was something you are hiding or ashamed about, so much so that you couldn't come to them also.

    Just like when you are arrested. Make them PROVE your guilt, but NEVER admit to anything. Make them do the work.

    Also, if they ask a question that makes you suspicious or uncomfortable, it's better to keep silent and let them think you do not understand what they mean (especially if they reference ex-jw books) than to try and explain it. Oftentimes people will draw the wrong conclusions because they mistake silence for misunderstanding. If they reference ex-jw stuff or cult books, simply say "The Society recommends we not look at that stuff. YOU haven't been looking at that stuff have you? If so, I think it's time for you to leave".

    Put them on the defensive, swaying suspicion away from yourself and causing them to have to defend themselves and their loyalty to the Org.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Not an Elder......but frequently the subject discussed by Elders.

    Since your Uncle has been running his mouth, they are going to be on 'high alert' and your well intentioned intervention is pretty much dead on arrival by his actions now.....

    You will need to fall back and regroup for a more opportune time. Make the visit about family, don't diss the 'troof', make a point to familarize yourself with current pubs and speak soothing theocratese to them and put them at ease. From there in a few months, divide and conquer should be your directive. In groups the JWs will just agree with each other and use each other as support to their indoctrinated positions. However if alone you might be able to get the individual to concede some especially if you use WT publications......using of course the 'asking question' method.

  • Awen
    Awen

    Oh and not an Elder or MS, couldn't stomach all the spying. Reference the Elders' secret handbook.

  • ninja
    ninja

    ask pointed questions...such as

    why do we believe that the brothers always knew jesus came in 1914.........yet

    It is true that the editor and publisher of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Second Presence calculated that the "presence" or parousia of the heavenly bridegroom began in the year 1874 C.E. ...In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time" it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E.
    (God's Kingdom Of A Thousand Years Has Approached. 1973. pp. 206, 209.)

    they didn't REALLY KNOW until 1943.....

    p.s....I love their nonchalance......."naturally this did away with the year 1874"........naturally?.....NATURALLY?......ha ha ha....flucking cult

  • treadnh2o
    treadnh2o

    Dude, You are apostate!

    If you want to hide it that's your choice. ( I hide it to select family members)

    If you want to live liberated, admit it to them.

    Personally, I would probably get myself reinstated by being "teachable", "humble", and "repentant" (PUKE)

    Then pull a fast fade.

    All the best my fellow apostate.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    If you just learned "the truth about the truth" these JWs will walk all over you. You are a "newbie" to all of this.

    It is best just to say that after a lot of honest consideration you have made the decision that the JWs are not for you. Leave it at that. Say that you don't have to agree in order to love one another. If they pressure you to speak you should just refuse and say that you know everything the Watchtower has to say and you simply remain unconvinced at this time. Be strong in holding the position that nothing they can say will change your mind.

    You've been DF'd for 14 years, how has your relationship been with them? Have they accepted you?

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    cyber said:

    They said they were gonna answer those questions after I was reinstated :-D

    Wow! Now THERE'S a PLAN!!!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit