HELP I need some ex-elders help for a phone conversation with my JW parents

by cyberjesus 28 Replies latest jw experiences

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  drew sagan

  I will not try to attack their faith. (i will let them do it themselves)

  One thing to keep in mind. Jw will typically "bait" you into attack mode. During a conversation negative aspects of the JW faith will be dismissed, pushing you further and further towards frustration. In an effort to overcome their dismissive attitude, you may be inclined to exaggerate things in hopes of getting your point across (e.g. focusing on very contriversial subjects like blood and DF). The instant you show any emotion they will say "got ya!", believing that you are just angry and defiant and not really in search of "truth". You are "full of pride" and deserve little respect.

  I only had a few conversations with JWs that I would call productive. In each case the JW agreed with me when we talked, and showed very little of a defensive attitude. In every case the JW went back to JW Elders who convinced them that their doubts were unjustified.

  When I had these conversations I had an extrememly structured presentation. The JW was given very little time for rebuttles and argument. During one conversation, I had photocopies, bible verses, and organized documentation. I went point by point, asking that the person consider the Watchtowers own information. For over two hours I spoke with an Elder who eventually said that I was right. He appeared very scared (my wife actually was affraid he might be very distressed at seeing that it may not be the truth). The truths I confronted him with eventually made him angry at me, making our JC situation worse. Because of a group mentality, the Elder ganged with two other elders and did a complete 180, acting harshly towards us during the committee meetings. Yet, he visited my house once more and displayed the same kind attitude as he did when the other Elders wern't around. Kind of like a dual personality.

  If you dad is actually open to listening, I would suggest you have everything you want to present documents. Lots of websites have the quotes organized that you need. Make sure it is current. Don't just go off saying "you know that they do this....". The JW will simply deny it. Use the publications, they are the authoritative source.
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  cyberjesus

  Yes, Drew, Great point you are making, patience is a virtue! I think I learned the real patience not the fake JW type :-) I am planning to appeal to their own consience by presenting scenarios facing learning the true facts in a way that they can not just wait in Johova. And then switch it around to let them know this is my situation.
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  cyberjesus

  Ok my parents arrived. I had a 4 hour meeting with my Dad he was very receptive and listed, I tried the phobia intervention but, it didnt work as expected (I failed) or maybe it did cuz he listened and we spoke for at least for four hours. He said he will love me anyways as his son. I got some points across.

  My mom was a little harder, although she is smarter she is more indoctrinated and all her phobias kicked in and started to cry, I made her realize that everything I said was turning on the APOSTATE phobia eventhough I never told her anything against the JW I only told her my journey of discovery and what got me to be in this place. She cried I reinforced that I loved her unconditionally but they were programmed like robots. I told her that I needed to find the truth on my own account and after 3 hours we stopped talking. Later on she text me back sayin that she understdood my point of view and was considering to respect it. I told her I had discovered that the WT flat out lie and that was the trigger.

  I was so prepared but at the moment of talking to them I freaking panicked and forgot all my arguments Gosh Darn it!

  But it went well, tonight I will show my dad Ray Franz letters to the GB
• 

  The Oracle

  thanks for the update cyber!

  Please keep us posted as to what happens next.

  cheers,

  The Oracle
• 

  cyberjesus

  The real prophets are here!

  Day 3 - Everything its written here regarding what their attitudes will be has come true. I never saw my parents in this light before. They look like robots. They hear nothing worst than talking to a wall. They are starting to feel fearfull of me. However I have not even critized the WT yet... The only thing I have stated is that I have been searching for the facts.... and that freaks them out. sometimes I ask them questions and they ask me to repeat it again twice since the first time they were in limbo.

  I have accused over and over by many non jws of being judgemental and I always denied. Until recently when I started to study the Cult and realized they are judgemental and now I analize my thoughts, now I understand that I had the same training and use to make judgements on people really easy... I see my parents now and feel bad for them.

  I was able to mention today at least to my dad that the Instruction was that elders didnt need to be removed if the sin was in the past. he inmediatly closed the window and said he needed to do something else. he said he is gonna check his book....bingo (first doubt) he said he will write to the society about this issue if thats the case.... yes they will reprimend him inmediatlely

  DOUBTS is a marked word. write that down. I told my mom that JWs are pre-programmed to jump when they hear that word..I showed her that if I say that word their brain inmediately switchs modes. She saw it. I told her that word is good. It really means "you have a question" it means you want to know cuz you dont really know... a question is good cuz it starts the thought process and comes from the desire to learn... She is starting to realize that they are automatically acussing me of being influenced by other people.

  At least they are talking to me more about it.
• 

  ziddina

  "I was so prepared but at the moment of talking to them I freaking panicked and forgot all my arguments Gosh Darn it!..."

  Flash cards, man... Flash cards...

  Take a page from the "Theocratic Ministry School" [do they still call it that??] Make small notes on an index card and keep it in an inconspicuous place - or refer to it more directly... Should help you stay 'on topic' a bit more - or at least keep your questions and comments in front of you.

  Best of results to you! Zid
  
  
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  cyberjesus

  haha yeah good point.

  Wow I feel so empowered really, my parents decided to go and stay with my grandparents (apparently the spirit wasnt flowing here) so I went to visit them twice this weekend.

  I mainly spoke to my mom. She kept asking me to stop reading and researching :-) she says that when she watches history channel and they say the red sea didnt really part she changes the channel, there is no point to hear something that goes against the WT (yeah wow) She askd me to go to the meetings again and just wait... She also asked if I was influencing other people apparently in my family they are saying that I spoke to people in bethel and that someone was DFd by my influence, that I am forming a new religion that the mormons opened my eyes, etc etc... just a bunch of lies.. I asked her what did she do.. Did you defended the truth? - I asked her. She said she didnt know if that was true. I told her she can just ask me. I told her that she knew i was just searching for answers to my questions thats all, I asked her why didnt she defended the truth.....no answer.

  Then I told her that if she would've preferred that I would've lied to her and fake that I was still a JW....she paused. she changed the topic I asked her again, we did it at least three times until she finnally answered. my question was --- Do you rather learned the truth or should I just lie to you.... she couldnt answer

  Dad decided that they are going to return to mexico earlier. Poor family.

  Anyway tomorrow I will have a final meeting with them.
• 

  cyberjesus

  Needless to say.... and as a good newbie... didnt listen....

  it didnt work.. So I bring this up for those of you newbies...

  3 years and no more communication with my robot family :-)

  oh well.... I am out!
• 

  featherimiss

  CyberJesus...you scared the bejesus out of your parents. Your mother wanted you to lie to her. She enjoys being lied to. I don't suggest lying...but is/was it necessary to let her know your beliefs. When she said that she turn the tv on the History channel...that was your clue to empathize with her and leaving the religion subject alone

  Some believe that having the conversation to let them know what you believe will free their family for the JW org. I say just love them where they are and when and if they want to be free...they will come to you.

  I would stop all JW conversation with all of your family. Just speak on love and non religious issues.