HELP I need some ex-elders help for a phone conversation with my JW parents

by cyberjesus 28 Replies latest jw experiences

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    CyberJesus said, "I had planned to come back with a clean conscience so I started to study and research the WT to prove to myself this was the TRUTH, the elders had met with me to suggest me to submit a letter of reinstatement, in the same meeting I told them i had some questions that I needed help with before i was to go back...."

    Then he said, "Within a week I found the Truth about the truth and stopped attending the meetings.... I just finished reading Steven Hassan's RELEASING THE BONDS) so I was planning to do a 3 step intervention with them but now they are coming along with my sister who is very JW opionated...."

    That sounds like CyberJesus was CONSIDERING a return UNTIL he found further information exposing the WTBTS' false teachings - and now needs some help from former elders who can give him pointers on what to expect [the INQUISITION] and moderate, intelligent replies that would be most effective in allowing a GENTLE FADE.

    As it stands right now, his questions and doubts have alerted the elders' "APOSTATE radar"! [BTW, Arwen, GREAT ADVICE!! ]

    Wish I could help. Best of luck, and DO stay true to yourself, above all else! Zid

    jk

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Wow! Now THERE'S a PLAN!!!

    I was thinking the same thing too. That must be one of the funniest things i've read on this board in a long time (no offense to the bad situation that cyberjesus is stuck in).

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Thanks all for the replies, Yes im pretty new at this apostate thing. However i got one of my cousins in mexico and one of my uncles here in the states that both were inactives to open their eyes. So those two are out now :-)

    No I am not trying to go back anymore. I Just want my parents out. We have been so distant for the past 14 years and the 20 before we didnt even spent much time together because all the theocratic responsibilities.

    They know by now that I have been doing a lot of research and I stopped going to the meetings now three other uncles here are on high alert. I think if I could split them apart and just ask questions that make them shock themselves. the whole phobia intervention....

    YEah that was funny when the elders said that.... They told me .."well you have been attending the meetings for quite some time and we want you to know that the next step to go back is writting a letter ....". then I told them that at this time I still had some questions and that I needed to have answered before I went back since when I got baptized I didnt really understood what I was doing, and now I was but first I needed some clarification", then they said that I would get my questions asked after the reinstatement, that they would set up a bible study with me also... (hello I was a MS that was giving public talks already and worked as a outside bethel volunteer) Anyhow that was funny. I told them that it was like signing a contract and then reading the fine print. I said what if I dont like it? you are gonna df me again :-)

    Anyway its gonna be hard to wait because my kids are ready to leave a free live, celebrating whatever they want, they even have a boxed christmas tree waiting for when they leave :-)

    This is what Ive read

    COC
    Releasing the minds
    Apocalypsis Delayed
    Bible Unearthed
    In search of Jesus
    Who wrote the bible
    How to read the bible
    The time paradox
    and 100s of hours of freeminds JWN JWR JWFACTS and a bunch of other websites. (I even got a response from Ray Franz yay)

    Anyway Thanks for your comments and for being here, I really appreciate it.

    Human love to you

  • monkeyman
    monkeyman

    Elder for 14 yrs......................

    Look, the moment you begin your "intervention" by asking some of the above well intentioned questions, their apostate radar will go balistic and you will be busted forever. Don't for a minute think that you will get a listening ear.

    Face it, JW do not allow for independent thinking on spiritual matters. It's their way or the highway and the payback is severe.

    So if you want to have relations with your JW family from now on, keep your "independent thinking" to yourself and fake it. Otherwise you will be branded an apostate and they will shun you forever.

    Think twice about the "brave" advice given here by some who may not have family to lose.

    I dont like this any more than you but what I'm telling you is what will happen.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    If they're not humble, honest, and hungry, they're not ready to learn the truth about the truth.

    You probably already know this...

    (1 John 4:1) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired (or shall we say "spirit guided") expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

    Awake! July 2009 "The Bible's Viewpoint--Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?"
    p. 28 last line "Since our Creator wants us to search for truth, it cannot be wrong to act on the evidence that we find--even if this means changing our religion."
    P. 29 "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I highly reccommend this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/War-Heaven-Earth-Apocalyptic-Millennialism/dp/1904768881/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

    It's heavy academic material, but well worth the read. I also enjoyed the book "When Time Shall Be No More". Looking at JW type beliefs (protestant millenialism) within a broader societal context helps bring in some perspective.

    Won't help you with your folks, but still worth a read.

  • Joshnaz
    Joshnaz

    You need All Time Jeff

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    You have read some great books, and you already seem to have a good strategy.

    One bit of advice, which you are probably already planing on doing...is to make sure you don't come on strongly with any opinions.

    Ask questions. If they start pressing you for reasons as to why you aren't going - let them know that you have some reasoanable concerns, but stress that your hesitant to mention what your concerns are because you "don't want to weaken their faith or be discouraging". This should completely diffuse the apostate label. If you want to avoid getting the apostate label then I suggest you use this technique. This will keep the dialogue going - which is probably what you want. This will allow you time to employ some of the techniques of Steve Hassan.

    Of course, if you don't care about being labelled an apostate then have some fun with sharing your concerns in a straightforward manner - but I can tell you your conversation will probably end sooner than you would like.

    The Oracle

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    The are coming in 3 days and Im getting nervous. I am planning to start showing them my incoditional love, asking them questions to make them think (following Hassans suggestions) and I think it would be great if I could talk to some Ex-elders that could tell their story (if I get that far with my parents)

    Hi there CyJ. I actually tried what you are doing with my dad when I left in 2006. Here was my plan. (and I didn't panic, but I didn't think either...)

    My dad was baptized in 1969, and was still smoking I believe, before they gave everyone a 6 month ultimatum. I think the 1975 is around the corner really hit him hard. Plus, he had a very abusive, difficult childhood from what I could gather.

    When I had my JW epiphanies, I left everything at once, after some planning. Mom already left some years back, and thankfully, saw the light first. Dad and Mom divorced, and Dad has been on his own ever since.

    He needed, and still needs the religion/cult. My "evidence" showing didn't work too well.

    When I visited him, he had a feeling that things weren't going well with the ex, and that I was pretty upset about what happened while I was a missionary. So he listened as I told him about 1914 and the UN. He still wouldn't believe me about 1914 and 607 BCE. Didn't even want to hear it. The UN thing, which I had the letter from the UN, shook him a bit. He said he would write a letter to the branch. I don't know if he did, I bet he didn't.

    It hasn't affected our relationship, me leaving. We still talk. I can tell you though, he will not leave. He needs that last thread of familiarity in his life, as all else is gone. His wife, his other son (suicide) its all gone.

    After a year or more of not talking, we talked and shared. He isn't going to shun me, though we aren't close, we do love each other very much. It's just how things have worked out for us.

    I don't know if my experience can help you, but it is my firm opinion that any JW, regardless of whether they are a parent, relative, or acquaintance, will not see the truth about the truth unless they are ready for it. If your parents want to be JW's, it is likely that you aren't going to change them.

    You mentioned that you read Hassan's book. I have only glanced through it. The insights there about cults hopefully will help you to understand the neediness that the JW organization has created, the co-dependency. It is an emotionally, mentally, and spiritually abusive cult. So be patient, and realistic.

    If it happens at all, it won't be in one setting. If you do an intervention, may I suggest getting in contact with Randy Watters at freeminds.org who has done several. I don't know the success rate of cult interventions, but they have worked in the past with proper planning.

    Wishing you the best in your life of freedom from this destructive cult.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    THANK YOU ALL !!! for your comments they are deeeply appreciated. I will read those quotes and books :)

    The Oracle: that is good advice, I will be like King David (the bible version) :-)

    ATJ: Thanks for you story. It does help me. I think I am gonna go very slow and sense every moment and stop when I think I gotta stop. Thast the difficult part. But I will call in several passages of my life when I trusted them and they trusted me.

    Im gonna start with the following which happened when I was 3 and 11

    Dad, remember when I was 3 and we use to walk for hours to go preaching? remember the time when I was so tired of walking and I told you I was really tired and you asked me to remember who was giving us strength? Remember that I said "Jehovah" and therefore I continued walking? rembember at that age I had already learned about everything you told me and I trusted your everyword. The Fact is that when you finnally picked me up on your shoulders and after a while you got tired yourself and told me you were tired, remember what i asked you? Yes I asked you the same thing. I trusted you and Jehovah with my heart and mind

    And remember when I was about to get expelled from High School for not saluting the flag and we had the meeting with the principal. I stood there and said that my trainned conscience due to bible study wouldnt let me do anything against God and that my conscience would bug me if I did?

    Well the I am the same person, I still love you even more and my conscience is still working and my love for God led me to study even deeper the "truths" I had learned......

    Then I will proceed to talk about the Phobias, thought stoppers, SO they are more willing to hear. Then I will show how other cults insert phobias in their members, then I will ask if the JW have similar phobias, then i will asked them if there is anything they fear? and if there is anything they dont like about the org.

    I am gonna try to have them talk to me about their doubts, not mine. Cus they all have doubts. ALL JWs have doubts and fears. They just cant talk about them (epiphany here). Once they start talking about them I would ask them if there is something that will make them ever leave.... dig dig dig, what if, what if, what if.... and then and only then I will tell them what happened to me, and what i discovered and will ask them what would they do in my case with a good consience.

    I will not try to attack their faith. (i will let them do it themselves)

    Im so nervous.....

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