Climate Change The New Catalyst For Globalists/Communist Utopia

by Perry 372 Replies latest members politics

  • HappyGuy
    HappyGuy

    That would be you, JWoods; the guy who just now finally, only after being asked the most direct, basic question on global warming I could come up with; finally admitted that yeah, there might just be something to the idea that pumping massive amounts of carbon and methane into the atmosphere just might "tend to increase temperature to some slight degree".

    There are a couple of things wrong with this premise. And, the global warming, now climate change, nutjobs KNOW that they are wrong.

    First, it has been proven that high temperatures cause an increase in CO2 levels, not the other way around.

    Second, the most important factor in climate is the amount of solar radiation the earth receives. There are many factors which affect this. The amount of CO2 in the air is miniscule compared to the other factors. The so-called climate "models" that the global warming nutjobs use do not include the most important variables. I found this impossible to believe, but it is true.

    Third, the term "massive" is a relative term. Volcanoes put out far more "greenouse" gases than all of human activity combined. Volcanoes emit gases that have a far greater impact on earth's albedo than CO2 ever could.

    Fourth, the earth's temperature is decreasing, not increasing, that is why the nutjobs changed their term from "global warming" to "climate change".

    Fifth, even if the temperature was increasing, past history proves that this is a good thing, not a bad thing. Humans prospered during the medieval warm period.

  • ninja
    ninja

    I'm with the apostaclimatologists.....you know...the ones the believers tried to silence

  • villabolo
    villabolo

    JWoods:

    Here is a link which shows that church is still in session on the climate issues: It postulates that if the artic ice did melt, it might very well trigger an ice age. It does not attempt to explain WHY the ice shelf did melt 12,000 years ago to cause that ice age (if in fact it did).

    "Yes, I know - climate change (note - warming is now "change") enthusiasts will take this as yet another reason for Kyoto. But please - let's just plainly admit that even the best climatologists simply do not know what is going to happen next. Lets also just plainly admit that we are simply in no position to be sending trillions of dollars to third world countries for whatever reason - as if that is going to solve some weather trend."

    You bring up points, such as the one about terminology, which have already been answered but you choose to ignore. So, I remind you that "Global Warming" and "Climate Change" are both accurate phrases depending on context. They are not exactly the same thing although one, that is Global Warming, leads to another, Climate Change. Global Warming refers to temperature increase, Climate change refers to all of the effects this warming could cause such as altered rain patterns, changes in crop growing regions, etc.

    You state that an ice free Arctic might trigger another Ice Age. That is old news to those who are serious about the subject. I will quote from James Oberg's book New Earths, 1981 edition, my comments are in highlighted in blue:

    "When present (and only 5,000 years ago, the ocean was apparently ice free), the floating ice allows the air to cool more intensely in winter and warm more intensely in summer, since the ice serves as an insulator between the air and the water. The temperatures just above the ice in winter average about -30C, but only -2C in in water just below it.

    The equator-to-pole temperature gradient is one of the most important driving forces on planetary weather patterns. The winter semipermanent polar anticyclones provide one of the anchors for the global atmospheric circulation; with a decrease of equator-to- pole temperature difference, the subtropical anticyclone belt would be displaced northwards, drastically redistributing Earth's desert and rainfall zones.

    Any drastic redistribution of climatic zones will cause disruption of crops ecozones which will in turn cause starvation even in this over glorified nation.

    The disappearance of this ice by deliberate or accidental human activity would have immediate local consequences as well. There would be a more moderate coastal climate around the Arctic Ocean, but precipitation would increase substantially,perhaps leading to renewed continentalglaciation. While some regions of permafrost might be opened for cattle pasturage, others could spawn new glaciers.

    An ice-free Arctic with its milder climate might contribute to the melting of the Greenland ice cap, however, and that could cause trouble. The Greenland ice is in an unstable situation: the snow-fed glaciers are at high altitudes in contact with cold air; as the ice melts, the elevation of the surface decreases, bringing it into contact with denser, warmer air which accelerates the m

  • villabolo
    villabolo

    Simon, I know that trinitarians have a tendency to be hypergraphic but you're going to have to do something to give the rest of us serious posters more space either that or at least a warning in the box that we are at the limit of our assigned limit of space.

    villabolo

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Robdar: read "Tau Zero" by Poul Anderson. All we have to do is build a Bussard ramjet and keep going. We can survive the destruction of the entire universe.

    I keep trying to tell all of you that the arguments back and forth and citing this guy and that guy or this list of organizations or whatever is useless. We need to get clean data from somewhere.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    First, it has been proven that high temperatures cause an increase in CO2 levels, not the other way around.

    It has indeed been proven that higher temperatures can cause an increase in CO2 levels. Your addition of "not the other way around" is just your own attempt at obfuscation.

    Are you unaware of the basic physics of the greenhouse effect? You know, the physical effect of the greenhouse gas composed atmosphere that is primarily responsible for earth's average temperature being a relatively warm 57 degrees, as opposed to a uninhabitable -0.4 degrees?

    Now please, tell me why it is that you believe that increasing the amounts of greenhouse gasses that, well, warm the earth, won't warm the earth more?

    Second, the most important factor in climate is the amount of solar radiation the earth receives.

    No, as I pointed out above, the sun would keep the earth at a toasty -0.4 degrees. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have it, but I'm even more happy, guy, that the greenhouse gasses that make up the earth's atmosphere bring the temp on up to an average 57 (now 58) degrees. Maybe you're an Eskimo, with different priorities from the rest of us. If so, you don't get a seat at the table.

    Fourth, the earth's temperature is decreasing, not increasing, that is why the nutjobs changed their term from "global warming" to "climate change".

    No, if that were the case, the chart below would start high on the left, and trend downward to the right. Imo, it was a mistake to change from the term "global warming" to "climate change", but the naive scientist thought that people could/would understand the complexities. It was a mistake because all those "climate change" complexities evolve out of global warming.

    Fifth, even if the temperature was increasing, past history proves that this is a good thing, not a bad thing. Humans prospered during the medieval warm period.

    You mean this "medieval warm period" (when, btw, the earth had a tiny fraction of the humans it has now, all living in direct contact with the land)?:

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    Third, the term "massive" is a relative term. Volcanoes put out far more "greenouse" gases than all of human activity combined. Volcanoes emit gases that have a far greater impact on earth's albedo than CO2 ever could.

    Really? I didn't know that. I still don't know it, because it's wrong. It's not just a little wrong, it's "massively" wrong.

    btw, when I used the word "massive", I didn't mean it as a relative term. I meant it as, well massive (especially in relation to CO2 from volcanos, which is no small amount in the first place):

    1: forming or consisting of a large mass: a:bulkyb:weighty, heavy <massive walls> <a massive volume> c: impressively large or ponderous d: having no regular form but not necessarily lacking crystalline structure <massive sandstone>

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Villa

    Just because they (scientists of many colors and fragrances, politicians - superheroes like al gore and others) don't finally know what the weather is gonna do, doesn't mean that we shouldn't do SOMETHING. Conservation is good, of course. But, the main thing that we, the general public, is supposed to do is PANIC. General alarm in the populous gives the various authority figures MORE authority. And, in these days of propagating knowledge, the CONSERVATION of authority of authority figures is also a very important thing for us 'little people' to do.

    Less sarcasticly though.... The truth is that our favorable weather is and always has been on a knife edge balance. In the distant past, the whole freekin planet has been totally frozen over, at least a couple of times. Volcanoes and asteroids have wiped the planet almost clean at least a couple of times. Change in the weather is the ONLY constant.

    S

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Hey Six, I wanted to find some unbiased info, cuz I don't know if I believe either one of you know what you are talking about , and I found this blog where a similar argument has taken place. There are some links etc. Interesting, particularly the demeanor of the combatants.

    Chilian Volcano Has Belched more Carbon Dioxide Than all Humans Have in Last two Decades.

    June 16th, 2008 • Richard Cochrane Was there any coverage of Volcanos?There ought to be a law against volcanic pollution.

    Did this frighteningly political documentary mention volcanoes?

    A volcano in southern Chili is burping and belching millions of tons of ash, carbon dioxide and debris into the air. In two weeks it has spit out more CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) than the sum total of all human activity has in more than two decades, and it is far from finished.

    There Are 9 Responses So Far. »

    1. Comment by Richard Cochrane on 17 June 2008:

      I was wrong about the twenty years. the Chilian volcano has emitted more Carbon Dioxide that all human activity since World War II, closer to 60 years.

    2. Comment by Jim Sweet on 7 March 2009:

      I will be having dinner with a group of liberals tonight. The fact that drilling for US oil is banned by a liberal congress and even LARGER left wing president in the name of global warming is a sin. “A volcano in southern Chili is burping and belching millions of tons of ash, carbon dioxide and debris into the air. In two weeks it has spit out more CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) than the sum total of all human activity has in more than six decades.”

      “Producing

  • beksbks

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