question for theMadJW and other Wt apologists (page 4)

Caedes

Edited to say : Apologies I realise I was getting a bit off topic there!

DJK

ignorant posters clap like monkeys

We are not ignorant posters. We question your ignorance and your blindness. Have you not noticed your preaching is not benificial here?

Open mind

DJK:

Have you not noticed your preaching is not benificial here?

I strongly disagree. We could use lots more like him on this site.

DJK, would you really rather have NO JW apologists on here?

Come back Sheppard! And bring your Bible-based answers.

om

The Almighty Homer

On what basis do you make the claim that the leadership of the JW's, aka governing body, is the organization God is and has been working through continuously since 1919?

Answer : When the Society wanted to create more money for the purchase of new printing presses and better facilities

and to extend their power which they have already achieved over others.

TD

Firstly, wether it is in 1919 or at another time, Luke 12:43, after describing the faithful Steward says "Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so!". So there would come a time when the master would arrive to inspect if the slave or house manager was taking care of business or not.....

It sounds to me that "Faith" in this instance is a method of mental cheating.

The scripture you quoted includes a conditional conjunction -- "IF" JW's have not only assumed that the Master did in fact find the house manager "Taking care of business" as you put it; they have used their own unique doctrines as the yardstick to make that determination.

I really doubt if you would let a member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints get away with such an obvious circularity. In other words, if a Mormon where to ask, "In 1919 who was the only group teaching the truth?" you would never let that Mormon proceed to define "Truth." If you did, the answer would be predetermined, because obviously only the Mormons were teaching truth as truth is defined by the Mormons.

Similarly, when Jehovah's Witnesses use their own unique teachings as the yardstick for determining who, in 1919 was really faithful, this is simply a thinly disguised circular prior assumption of the correctness of those teachings.

I would also question whether writing off a logical problem like this to "Faith" is compatible with the larger framework of JW theology. Do JW's come to my door because they want me to accept on faith that God has chosen them, or do they believe that the facts when objectively examined logically support this conclusion? I believe it's the latter of the two and that it is upon this that they balance the idea that anyone rejecting that message will be destroyed.

digderidoo

Is the MadJW here? ... he gets booted off other forums, including pro JW ones.

Paul

cantleave

Faith is the asssured expection of things hoped but not yet beheld (or something like that). Apparently the GB is here and can be seen - so why, as sheppard infers, does it come down to being a matter of faith?

jonathan dough

Please allow me to quote from a 1990 watchtower regarding the governing body in the first century:

"While all anointed Christians collectively form God’s household, there is abundant evidence that Christ chose a small number of men out of the slave class to serve as a visible governing body. The early history of the congregation shows that the 12 apostles, including Matthias, were the foundation of the first-century governing body. Acts 1:20-26 provides us with an indication of this. In connection with a replacement for Judas Iscariot, reference is there made to “his office of oversight” and to “this ministry and apostleship.”"

This is completely false. The JWs always distort early Christianity to justify their hold on the flock when history and scripture makes it very clear that there was NOT one governing body that resembles the contemporary Society. At a minimum there were two groups of identifiable Christians, Jews and gentiles. The Jewish Christians did not run the Gentile Christians with the same authority. Paul followed both rules, Jewish and Gentiles, depending on the circumstances. The Jewish Christians continued to ascribe to the Law (Paul said I AM a Pharisee) , and passed along very few "regulations" the gentiles were expected to adhere to. Note also that the Jewish Christians (the Pillars you base the GB on) passed away, and their misguided version of the "truth" did not carry the day due to a lack of understanding of the role the Law played and how the new faith was to unfold. To justify the Governing Body's hold based upon the role of the early Pillars is unfounded. And most certainly, Paul, as the head of the Gentile Christians, was nothing like today's governing body of corporate executives. He was not a "governing body" in the JWs' sense of the term.

So the question is, when did the master arrive to inspect the slave's work?

To do this, Witnesses point to the beginning of the parousia and then make some calculations when examining what was happening in the world and within the organization. This is where faith is required as I mentioned in the first line.

You are hiding behind "faith" when you know the facts documented ad nauseum on this board prove your 1914 theory is dead wrong. They don't base it on faith but false facts.

Returning to the topic at hand, it is logical to think the master, Jesus Christ, would come to inspect the work of the slave after his enthronement since up to that point he has only been sitting at the right hand of God waiting for this time.

That is not logical at all. Even if you don't believe Christ was, and is, God, you are forgetting the fact that Christ said he would be with us throughout the age, that he is here in Spirit, because he is the Sprit, and therefore He knows perfectly well what has been going on here just as he knew what Paul was doing in his time. To think that He sat up on a throne not aware of what His servants have been up to on earth is flat-out ignorant. Besides, all of your arguments are moot because Christ was not enthroned in 1914. And that is not just opinion.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-7.html#VIII

but the Witnesses believe that upon inspection, the master found only one group attempting to do what was right.

Oh, give me a break. Christendom has been preaching repentance, end times, good works and has done more of what the Bible and Christ demands than the JWs will do in a thousand lifetimes. The complete opposite is true. The JWs are doing what is wrong, not what is right.

JD II

isaacaustin

TheSheppard, you wrote many words but did not answer my question as to the basis for the claim that the WT was chosen to handle Jesus earthly affairs.

Acts 15 and 16 do not prove a first century GB. Acts 15 is the settling of a matter by Paul and Barnabas, coming from Antioch to the source of the problem- Jerusalem. Paul's actions show he did not consider Jeru to be the center of authority as he operated independently of them. Acts 16 simply sums up that the decrees reached in ch 15 were communicated...no concept of a centralized GB here.

designs

Sounds like a bunch of people following the old adage of the Pot calling the Kettle Black.

Glossolaligists calling the Witnesses weird.............

question for theMadJW and other Wt apologists

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