What's wrong with being a Jehovah's witness

by dgp 50 Replies latest members adult

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    I still wonder about whether some people are better to remain JWs than to leave. It seems a big responsibility to try to force such a big change on another person.

    Paul,

    I would never force anyone to do anything. At the heart of Steve Hassan's message is FREEDOM and LIBERTY. With the JW's that I've awakened, they were very happy to learn that they were actively knocking on the doors of strangers and telling them things that weren't true. Further, once they realized this, they no longer had a desire to participate in that activity or to represent themselves as members of "the only true religion".

    Most people will choose liberty and truth over mental enslavement, once they can identify the choices.

    -LWT

  • Georgiegirl
    Georgiegirl

    Very interesting discussion. Lots of points on both sides. I struggle with this on many levels...I agree with Outlaw (I think) who said you are not a JW and never have been - therefore what you say to a JW carries little to no weight. This is true for most witnesses - I think very few would actually take a "worldly" person showing them the "truth" about the Truth with much seriousness. You are Bad, after all, and Outside. Secondly, I wonder with all of the rest of the problems in the world, what motivates you to focus on one small group like the JWs? Is this some kind of a ministry for you? (genuinely curious)

    All of my family is in. Most of them are getting old. In their case, the (mis)application of the scripture - Where would we go? - has alot of validity. Is it a kindness for me to attempt to destroy a lifetime of belief, to take away what little social structure and support they have for the few years of life they have left? No. To me that is not kind, it is selfish and self-serving on my part.

    At the same time, for those that are younger and still have the opportunity for a full and rich life - family, school, etc etc - HELL YEAH. I feel like I have a responsibility to at least present the possibilities. What they do with the information is their choice - and that's key for me - having a CHOICE.

    On the other hand (am I up to the 3rd or 4th hand), I am also aware that any type of black/white thinking is very triggering for me. How dare I try to impose MY belief system on others (even if they are JWs?) I'm doing the same thing I did as a witness. MY way of thinking is RIGHT and yours is WRONG therefore YOU must change. No. I am not going down that path. My freedom is hard-won and I won't pollute it by reverting back to that type of thinking.

    On the other other hand, don't I have the responsibility to give people the option to learn to think? I think so, yes. It's a fine line and one I struggle with.

  • dgp
    dgp

    I very much appreciate all the posts and hope to get some more. There are some things I need to mention.

    First, I chose the title as a way to provoke people to post. I read JW Facts's page months ago, and used his own title in my post. Maybe my choice of words was not the best one. With all due respect to most of you, who either were or still are witnesses, I also believe that the WTBTS is telling people a bunch of dangerous lies that may eventually result, as Leavingwt said, in their bleeding to death over something that not only is unbiblical but is also a lie. I have read a lot about all the pain and the suffering that result from these beliefs.

    My question, perhaps, was how to measure whether someone is ready to hear what he or she should hear, or not. I have particular interest in one witness. I know she has suffered a lot in the religion. A friend and I agree that she would personally be better off if she were to stop believing all the lies. But, being a third generation witness, all of her family and friends are in. This means grandmother, parents, siblings, children, grandchildren. Would it be a good thing to expose the Watchtower in her particular case? I have read Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control and am aware that you just can't remove a set of beliefs and leave people with a void. And, I know that shunning is a real painful thing, one I have never had to endure because my group of people don't do that. It's not only her, here. What about this woman's grandchildren? What about the children, who would not see their mom anymore? I feel like I don't have to think of one person only, but many.

    Yet, when I think that all it takes is a car accident for these people to bleed to death, I feel like I need to speak up, the sooner the better.

    At the moment, it escapes me who mentioned the example of the East German woman who didn't physically flee, and her reasons not to flee. That post I find very helpful, and I can really relate to it because I knew those societies because of my work. I'm absolutely sure that George Orwell's 1984 very well describes the witnesses. Maybe she needs to be mentally free, even if she physically can't do it. Perhaps it would snowball into other members of the family leaving, too. I can't know. And, since I am not a witness, I can't really determine who is a deeply in and who is not.

    I will very much appreciate any more posts. Maybe I won't be able to help her, but I might help other people. I think I already helped a relative out. This man was studying with the witnesses and was shocked to hear much of what I had to say.

    Thank you very much for any further thoughts.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Further. . .

    The blood issue is merely one aspect of it.

    One of the things that bothers me even more is how the entire JW worldview robs a person of their humanity. Many JWs view all outsiders as merely bird food.

    When I left, I began to see people as real people. They weren't "worldly" people or potential converts. They were people, just like me, with struggles, hopes and dreams. Upon leaving I had joined the community. I had left my fantasy bubble of apocalyptic gloom and doom.

    Having said all of this, I do agree that there are definitely folks "better off" not knowing what they're mixed up in and I wouldn't attempt to enlighten them. In my mind, this would almost always be a matter of age or finances or both. Randy Watters recently wrote an excellent article on this topic at Free Minds. Steve Hassan also candidly admits that trying to awaken a person who is TRULY HAPPY in a cult is futile.

    Very interesting topic, and I'm enjoying everyone's comments/perspective. Lots to think about.

    -LWT

  • VIII
    VIII

    Some people aren't happy in the cult, yet, they have no where else to go and they know it. Some in my family are examples. I know that they know it isn't "the truth". Yet, they persist in going to the meetings because at their advanced age, where else would they go?

    I know that Mouthy is an example of someone older who left, however, most Witnesses who are third generation and are in their 70's, are not going to pick up and suddenly make Worldly friends. It just is not going to happen. So, they remain because there is literally no where to go. No friends, no support network, nothing.

    They also are not going to go to another house of worship (Babylon the Great) and be OK. They have been taught since birth that any church other than a KH will make them potentially turn into a salt block. That is in the back of their mind. This is a no win for me. No matter what I say, they want religion in their life and they want and need their friends and relatives around them.

    How do you take that away from someone in the final stages of their life? I have tried to point out the lies. I have gotten no where.

    The blood issue is secondary. At least for me. At their advanced ages, I'm more concerned with standard elderly illnesses.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Has anyone ever met an ex-JW who wished he could erase his apostate thoughts and go back into the comfort of a lie?

  • VIII
    VIII
    Has anyone ever met an ex-JW who wished he could erase his apostate thoughts and go back into the comfort of a lie?

    No. I couldn't imagine going back. I think *I* either would be insane or on the edge of insanity if I were still in.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    Has anyone ever met an ex-JW who wished he could erase his apostate thoughts
    and go back into the comfort of a lie?.....Lwt

    Not 1..

    Every ExJW I have talked to..

    Has been Gratefull to escape the WBT$..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I think there are many of us in early to mid-fade mode who have entertained the thought of going back into the Matrix simply because it is just so hard to be in-between. I don't think there are many (probably statistically 0) who finally obtain their freedom (both mentally and physically) who go back.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Also, Freeminds had a good article on why some (few) people actually need to stay in. Can't find it right now, though. Browse the site and enjoy it all . . . the specific article will turn up eventually.

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