Were not these scriptures written by someone who never even met the Jesus of the bible, and written at least 60 years after he supposedly died?? Who knows if this account even happened, or if anything in the bible even happened?? No historian during Jesus time even wrote about him. Why did it take 60 to a 100 years later before he is mentioned?
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
by cameo-d 104 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Robdar
I've always enjoyed working around art. I love to hear the critiques. I have found that I can learn a lot about a person's personality by the way he perceives and describes the art in front of him. I think discussions about Jesus have a similar truth attached to them.
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cameo-d
Black Sheep: "You useless cumberer of the ground" is not describing a parasitic fig.
A parasitic fig would have been described as ""You useless cumberer of the trees" as it is a burden on the trees.
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Chis, you are expecting the words to have a literal meaning, but they are written in a poetic sense.
I sense that you are a meat and potatoes kind of guy---no fancy parsley on the plate.
Jesus is not cursing a botanical plant.
Jesus is not cursing those who "don't do enough"; he is cursing the ones who put those kinds of demands and guilt on people.
He is cursing those who have developed this system of using people by making commerce of them.
He is cursing those who are going along with the system of telling lies and calling it 'truth'.
He is cursing those people who use religion to spiritually and emotionally beat other people.
Not only does a strangler fig block the light and wither the tree, taking all it's resources; in the end it destroys the very soul of that tree and it rots from the inside out.
This is what happens to those who do not overcome the spiritual oppression of allowing the religious dictators to take their life.
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cameo-d
rabidewok: "
Were not these scriptures written by someone who never even met the Jesus of the bible, and written at least 60 years after he supposedly died?? Who knows if this account even happened, or if anything in the bible even happened?? No historian during Jesus time even wrote about him. Why did it take 60 to a 100 years later before he is mentioned?
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Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the actual scriptural references before you make comments that show your unfamiliarity with the subject being discussed.
The scriptures we are discussing can be found at Matthew 21 and Mark 11.
If you are interested in the authenticity of authorship, you can find scholarly reviews here: en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
From that site, there are leads to other detailed documents if you are inclined to look deeper.
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rabidewok: "Were not these scriptures written by someone who never even met the Jesus of the bible, "
According to the information we have, Matthew and Mark did meet and travel with Jesus for a few years.
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rabidewok: "No historian during Jesus time even wrote about him. Why did it take 60 to a 100 years later before he is mentioned?"
Perhaps you are not familiar with the persecution of Jesus's followers after his crucifixion. Anything written would have been destroyed.
Many of the scrolls we have today have been found hidden in caves in clay vessels.
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Black Sheep
Not only does a strangler fig block the light and wither the tree, taking all it's resources; in the end it destroys the very soul of that tree and it rots from the inside out.
I don't understand your fixation with strangler figs. They are a tropical rain forest plant. If you want to see one in Israel in the twentyfirst century you have to go to a botanical garden with a glass dome. The likelyhood that followers of Jesus knew what they were is very remote. They didn't grow there, tourist operators didn't have buses and aircraft and the average Jew couldn't afford internet so that he could look it up on wikipedia.
Please explain your reasons for believing that knowledge of these plants was common enough for them to be used as an example by your illustrious leader.
BTW, they do have fruit. You might not like them but birds do, that is how they propagate.
Cheers
Chris
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PSacramento
I don't like figs either, I would have cursed it too !!
LOL !
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Black Sheep
Another problem with this story is that Mark has Jesus cursing the tree on the road from Bethany to Jerusalem on the way to the temple to throw out the money changers.
Matthew has him cursing a fig tree on the same road, while travelling in the same direction, the day after throwing the money changers out of the temple.
For both of these stories to be true, they need to be describing two separate incidents.
Did he kill two trees?
Cheers
Chris
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cameo-d
I thought I had already answered these questions.
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Black Sheep:
I don't understand your fixation with strangler figs. They are a tropical rain forest plant.
Cameo-d:
Ficus religiosa, though not considered a "true" strangler (according to specific botanical details of the tropical version), is very common in Israel.
As a matter of fact, wood for fueling the fires of the altar was customarily from the fig tree.
This fig tree would have to be one that grows wild and bears no edible fruit because it was against protocols to use any fruiting tree for the altar fire wood.
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Black Sheep:
If you want to see one in Israel in the twentyfirst century you have to go to a botanical garden with a glass dome.
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As I said, these trees are very common in Israel. Here is additional information.
AB: Ficus religiosa is one of the common ornamental trees in Israel but despite great numbers of drupelets accumulating on the ground around the trees none was found to germinate. In the laboratory the drupelets germinated readily at 25 deg C in the light; no germination took place in darkness. Constant humidity of the substrate was essential. Of the 8 different substrates tested, the highest germination (94%) was obtained on sandy loam and lowest (66%) on pieces of fresh fruit.
Galil, J.; Meiri, L. (1981) Drupelet germination in Ficus religiosa L. Israel Journal of Botany, 1981, Vol.30, No.1, pp.41-47, 4 ref.
http://www.hear.org/Pier/wra/pacific/ficus_religiosa_htmlwra.htm
The ficus religiosa was often planted at temples. Here is a pic of one so you can see the "strangulating" root system.
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BurnTheShips
Ficus religiosa, though not considered a "true" strangler (according to specific botanical details of the tropical version), is very common in Israel.
The only figs that are from the region are Ficus Carica and Ficus Sycomorus. Ficus Religiosa cannot tolerate the temperate climate of Israel. Here in the contiguous US, the farthest north you can grow it is USDA zone 10B, which is Southern Florida and perhaps the extreme southern tip of Texas. Even if Ficus Religiosa could be grown in Israel with great care, I doubt it would have been a common species there 2000 years ago.
Your facts are wrong. Since your argumentation relies on that fact, it falls on that fact.
BTS
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cameo-d
Black Sheep:
Another problem with this story is that Mark has Jesus cursing the tree on the road from Bethany to Jerusalem on the way to the temple to throw out the money changers.
Matthew has him cursing a fig tree on the same road, while travelling in the same direction, the day after throwing the money changers out of the temple.
For both of these stories to be true, they need to be describing two separate incidents.
Did he kill two trees?
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Cursing the fig tree is directly related to overthrowing the money changers.
Jesus cursed what the fig tree represented....a system that was strangling people with laws and rules and making commerce of them. And in the end, the lies sucked their soul dry.
When he turned over the money changers he probably "woke up" a lot of people. He probably had a few choice words that finally made some people realize that their religion was an industry. And maybe there were a few who even felt remorse for having been a part of it. Maybe some were shaken into questioning the religious practices or leaving the church. The changes he caused that day was what was being referred to as the "withering of the tree". He had caused people to take a hard look at the profit motive of their religion as well as the lies and deceit.
This is what got him killed. It was never outlandish claims of being the son of god. It was because he exposed the sham of religion being used as a commerce. He pissed off a lot of people in high places as well as the merchants when he did this. When you mess with big business and act as a whistleblower, it's a good way to get yourself killed.