Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

by cameo-d 104 Replies latest watchtower bible

Black Sheep

I felt this subject deserved it's own thread.
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Quote:
This Jesus character is recorded in two books of the Bible as vandalising a fig tree for reasons that make absolutely no sense to me at all.
I have mentioned this stupidity a couple of times on this forum and the only attempt anyone had at explaining his actions completely ignored grammar and context.
Cheers
Chris
Istead of rabbiting on about vaguely related subjects, why don't you deal with the grammar and context of the two accounts and demonstrate how the grammar supports the notion that Jesus didn't kill a tree and did chuck out the money changers?
The technique you are using is nothing more than the same kind of distraction technique that was practiced by the cult I had the misfortune to be born into.
Matthew and Mark both say Jesus killed a tree, because it didn't have fruit out of season, at a place and a time and that it was witnessed.
I claim there is no way out for you using the grammar or context. Deal with that.
Cheers
Chris
Farkel

"You are a bad fig tree! Bad, bad, BAD fig tree!"
Thus saith the Lord.
Farkel, Fig-Tree Loving CLASS
Black Sheep

it makes sense to me that Mark and Matthew could be describing a conversation in which Jesus used a strangler tree
Pure unadulterated speculation, unsupported by the gammar of the two accounts, and contradicted by the non-availability of strangler figs in the area.
From the link that you gave us.

In Israel, F. religiosa and it's associated pollinator wasp, Blastophaga quadraticeps are now both established and producing seedlings near irrigated areas and in exceptionally moist microhabitats.
Note the word 'now' in there. What does 'now' mean? Why is it there?
You haven't provided any evidence that strangler figs, or knowledge of strangler figs, might have been common near Jerusalem 2000 years ago. All you have done is provided a distraction.
Cheers
Chris
Black Sheep

I had a reply via PM, but the poster wasn't discussing the Bible. What he was discussing was a view from Matthew Henry's Commentary, whoever he is.
I found this a little odd, as he came to the forum offering us a free Bible Study, but at his first opportunity, he offered to study a book other than the Bible.
He wanted to read the scripture as a parable, but didn't provide any evidence to support that notion, even though he claimed to have read the whole thread. He then discussed other scriptures that mentioned fig trees.
I found his defence very similar to my father's defence for everything..... quote a book other than the Bible, say lots of stuff about some slightly related subject and discuss scriptures other than the one you asked about.
I invited him to post it here, rather than use PM, but he didn't take up the offer.
Cheers
Chris
tec

I brought this over from another thread, in respect to Blacksheep not wishing to hijack that thread.
(...Blacksheep - You mentioned something about Jesus acting like a bad*ss and showing off his power to his mates, regarding the fig tree on another thread I started, and I apologize for not responding then.
Jesus condemned the pharisees and teachers of the law for their hypocrisy and hard hearts. They cared nothing for the people given into their care - those people who were poor in spirit and in material means as well. They certainly did not *feed* the spiritual hunger of the people, and they produced no *fruit* for the kingdom of heaven. (fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Galatians 5:22-23)
So... Jesus gets up, goes to a fig tree that is not producing fruit when he is hungry, and finds nothing to nourish him. Just as the people go to the teachers and pharisees when they are spiritually hungry, and find nothing to feed or comfort them. The fruitless tree (spiritual leaders of the jews) is cursed. It will never bear fruit again, because it does not feed those who are hungry now. They (pharisees and teachers of the law) have lost the right to the Kingdom of God.
I think the story actually happened (some believe it figurative, but it is the message that is important). But I think the event itself was a physical parable for Jesus' disciples. It showed Jesus' authority over the Kingdom of God. It also showed that those who do not spiritually comfort and feed the people given unto their care will be cut off from that Kingdom.
Please also note that the tree (growing on the side of the road) belonged to no one except God, and therefore, Jesus.
I wonder why would you dismiss every good thing Jesus did, in favor of what you think this one story says about Jesus character? Jesus fed five thousand, healed lepers and sickness, preached mercy and forgiveness, and stood up to the hypocrisy of the pharisees and teachers of the law. This is the true character of the man. Your assumption about the fig tree is being rendered completely out of context, in accordance to everything else that has been written about Jesus...)
Tammy
Black Sheep

Hi tec
Firstly
Please also note that the tree (growing on the side of the road) belonged to no one except God, and therefore, Jesus.
I wonder why would you dismiss every good thing Jesus did, in favor of what you think this one story says about Jesus character?
One is changing the subject. The other is questioning my character. These are tactics that my Jehovah's Witness family try to use on me when I question their beliefs. They won't work here.
Back to the subject.
So... Jesus gets up, goes to a fig tree that is not producing fruit when he is hungry, and finds nothing to nourish him. Just as the people go to the teachers and pharisees when they are spiritually hungry, and find nothing to feed or comfort them. The fruitless tree (spiritual leaders of the jews) is cursed.
Mark 11:13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.
What is it about this scripture that leads you to believe that the statement "... because it was not the season for figs." really means that it was the season for figs and that Jesus could reasonably expect to find some edible ones on a tree, in that area, at that time of year, 2000 years ago?
Cheers
Chris
tec

Blacksheep - You are the second person to accuse me of using tactics to change the subject when my beliefs are questioned. Honestly, I am not trying to do this.
But I don't see how I was questioning your character. I was questioning your assumption, based on what you had written on another thread to me:
What about the Jesus that vandalised the fig tree? No forgiveness, no humility, no charity, no mercy, and not much intelligence on display either. Just arrogance, showing off how tough he was to his mates. He was letting his true colours show, the psychotic tyrant with an inferiority complex. - Blacksheep
I apologize if I was not clear, but I do stand on the validity of my question, concerning this assumption.
What is it about this scripture that leads you to believe that the statement "... because it was not the season for figs." really means that it was the season for figs and that Jesus could reasonably expect to find some edible ones on a tree, in that area, at that time of year, 2000 years ago?
I don't ever recall saying that it was the season for figs when the scripture says that it was not. In fact, if the scripture states that it was not the season for figs, it seems more plausible to me that this whole ordeal was indeed a physical parable for the purposes I gave above... since there is no reason for Jesus to be expecting a fig on a tree that is out of season.
Best
Tammy
Black Sheep

No forgiveness
He couldn't bring himself to forgive the tree for having no fruit, even though it would have been highly unusual for any tree in the area to have any.
no humility
He could have shown some by saying "Oh dear, silly me, I forgot/didn't know/was hungover/whatever? and saved face."
no charity
It was near a town. If it was on public property I am sure disadvantaged locals and travellers would have been grateful for its fruit. I am sure that they would have been most unhappy regardless of who the vandal claimed to be.
no mercy
That one is obvious. He could have just walked away, which brings me to the last one ...
and not much intelligence on display either
Senseless pointless vandalism is not a good example to set. If I saw someone do this on my road, I would report him to the police. The supposed 'message' from his actions simply do not have anything to do with his actions. If you don't believe me, read the passages carefully, taking care to follow the rules of grammar. He was talking the talk, but he sure wasn't walking the walk.
Bad behaviour is bad behaviour regardless of who the perpetrator thinks he is
Cheers
Chris
Black Sheep

Your assumption about the fig tree is being rendered completely out of context, in accordance to everything else that has been written about Jesus
This thread isn't about all of the other stuff Jesus is supposed to have done. There are plenty of other threads for that.
It is about making sense of two sets of scriptures that have him killing a fig tree for reasons that he/the authors give that don't stack up. Yes, it is out of character. Why would the supposed son of god do such a thing? Did he do such a thing? Did the authors make it up, or were they too far removed in the game of Chinese whispers to be regarded as accurate? The stories don't even agree on the day. How does that effect their credibility? Have you put these two accounts side by side and compared them?
Cheers
Chris
cameo-d

Black Sheep
Put aside your preconceived notions in order to be able to read this with new eyes.
The illustration is METAPHORICAL. You must first understand what a metaphor is and then, how it is being used to mean something else.
Look up the etymology of the words for yourself---Bethpage and Bethany.
Bethpage was a community where the religious officials lived; they were separate from the common people. They had their own compound.
Jesus could see that they were corrupt and wicked. But because the evil had not developed to it's fullness (ripeness) to where it was obvious to everyone else---that is why Jesus cursed the fig for not being ripe. Jesus was cursing the fact that not everyone could see for themselves what he had been trying to expose. Many were still brainwashed in their cult. The evil had not become as visibly ripe and much remained deceitfully disguised.

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

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