Pedophiles Among Us - (H20 post)

by waiting 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    waiting
    Thank you for that post. As a former elder and P.O. I can really relate to what this brother is saying in his letter.
    Just to clear up one point that the brother makes a couple of times:

    The only way a person within the organization can be guilty of child molestation is by confession, conviction by a court of law, or by the mouth of two witnesses who were there for the same event.
    These directives make the Watchtower organization a pedophile paradise, where children can be freely molested, as long as there is not substantial evidence or two witnesses to the same event,


    The Judicial Committee will accept the testimony of two witnesses even if it’s for two separate occasions of the same offense. Of course the brother makes a very good point in pointing out that there is seldom a witness to the foul deed, at least one that would testify.

    if my child were to accuse a Jehovah’s Witness of molestation, all he/she would have to do is deny it… the first step the church should take is to notify the local authorities who will investigate whether the accusation has merit. Then if found guilty in a court of law, the pedophile will be publicly identified and punished. This protects the innocent and could help give closure to the victim.

    I agree with that thought. I don’t think that a man or woman should be convicted or removed from positions of authority on the accusation of one person be it a child or an adult. However, due to the nature of child molestation I believe that in all cases where a child comes up and accuses an adult of this heinous crime that the authorities who are trained in these matters should be called in.
    This next part is another nightmarish possibility:

    In addition, if the molester admits to molestation, repents in private to church elders, the victim or family of the victim is not encouraged to report the molestation to the police, and, if not reported, then church authorities demand the victim remain silent. Hence the pedophile can repeat the offense because no one is aware of his past.


    Suppose the offender is identified as such by an outright confession on his part or perhaps a couple of people blunder into the room while he is raping a child. Then what? Suppose that he convinces the Judicial Committee that he is repentant? His crime would never be mentioned to the congregation or to the authorities. Other children would be put at risk. Even if he is publicly reproved, the nature of his crime is not announced.
    Happily I have never had to deal with such a case. I don’t know how widespread it is within the congregations but I know that statistic wise it has to happen. The sad thing about this affair is that the reason for the silence is to perpetuate this self-image they have of themselves as the perfect little society that is ruled by God himself.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I think these rape/incest cases present really awkward situations for not only the congregation, but also the legal systems and society in general. The more one thinks on them, its not so plain and simple as disfellowshipping someone or throwing them in jail.

    I feel bad for many here that have had these things happen to them. I really never thought it was such a common thing. ((HUGS)) to all who had these things happen to them .

    From talking to various ones, I gather each reacts similarly and differently to what happened to them. Some feel to go to the authorities, and others feel to do so would only put them through the humiliation all over again and would rather quietly go on.

    It appears that in the past many elders actively discouraged individuals from going to the authorities to protect the image of the organization and in many cases forced them into silence by threatening to take action agaist the victim instead of the perpetrator.

    I do believe that this has changed these days, and the Society now supports reporting these crimes to the police. However the damage has been done, and it still lives on in many "old-school" elders who still want to side with the male and believe things like "the woman asked for it". They still ask things like "did u scream" or "what were you wearing".

    Perhaps some who are or were elders can clarify the society's past and present policies on the matter more clearly.

    However as tough as this issue is, I think Struggle has to be left to think and work things out for herself. On the surface things aren't as black or white as they appear to someone who hasn't looked at the big picture over a period of time.

    Thinker's Wife, I hope you can respect this and allow Struggle the time to weigh out things for herself. She will reach the right conclusions. It just takes time.

    Path

  • STRUGGLE
    STRUGGLE

    To Bob

    Thanks I to feel as you do, that I will be destroyed at armagedon. Even after going to the elders, how do you really know that Jehoavah has forgiven you? In the back of my mind I have thought about living for today! I don't know.

    To Mommy

    First I am following Jehovah. I draw the line between right and wrong. I would not in any shape form or fashion doing anything for the org. that I as a person know to be totally wrong. If I found out some info. about someone being molested, and was told to be quiet, my concscience would not allow me to do so. Even if it menat going to the secular authorities.

    Thanks for the prayers and lots of love sent right back at you.

    To Pathofthorns

    I will keep learning, thanks for the incite.

    To Thinker's Wife

    I am sorry. What I was implying was that for the things I do not know about, that are hidden Jehoavh would take care of. If I personally come to have knowledge about something so gross, I would without a doubt report it to the secular authorities. I could not stand by and allow things like that to go on. It is plain and simply "worng"
    (hug)

  • STRUGGLE
    STRUGGLE

    But you know I feel I don't belong, I feel dirty. Can't help it. I feel that I should still do what is expected of me, I don't wish to stumble anyone, even though I know that death awaits me at the end of this system of things. Again how do you really know that Jehovah has really forgiven you of your sins. How do you know he has not remove your name from the book of life?

    Edited by - Struggle on 31 December 2000 10:15:4

  • Seven
    Seven
    Happily I have never had to deal with such a case.

    Frenchy,Somehow I know you would have done the right thing.If the occurrence of rape were audible, its decibel level equal to its frequency, it would overpower our days and nights, interrupt our meals, our bedtime stories, howl behind our love-making, an insistent jackhammer of distress. We would demand an end to it. And if we failed to locate its source, we would condemn the whole structure. We would refuse to live under such conditions.-P.Francisco

    The sad thing about this affair is that the reason for the silence is to perpetuate this self-image they have of themselves as the perfect little society that is ruled by God himself.
    ...and the horses they rode in on.-anonymous [i]Years go by will I still be waiting/For somebody else to understand/Years go by will I choke on my tears/Till finally there is nothing left/One more casualty/Cause sometimes I hear my voice/And it's been here silent all these years/I've been here silent all these years/Silent all these
    years.-tori amos
    To the elderwho's letter of resignation waiting posted:I salute you good shepherd.

    Seven

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Struggle,

    even though I know that death awaits me at the end of this system of things. Again how do you really know that Jehovah has really forgiven you of your sins. How do you know he has not remove your name from the book of life?

    I know those feelings. They are the same feelings that Catholics fear about burning in a hellfire for eternity. The same feelings other churches perpetuate upon their members.

    I, like Bob, was raised a Catholic, studied at age of 18 - and the saving grace for jw's was that they showed me that there was no hellfire. Freedom!!!! However, over the years, I realized the WTBTS just replaced that ongoing fear of hellfire with something else:

    I will be destroyed at armagedon

    That is what the WTBTS hangs over every jw's head. If we disobey, sin, don't keep active in field service - we will be destroyed at armageddon and have everlasting cutting off. If we have children under the age of understanding - we sentence them to the same killing by Jehovah. Tends to keep one in The Truth, don't you think?

    Even the Catholics don't teach that if a parent leaves the Catholic Church, their young children will burn in hell with them. The WTBTS puts a unique "spin" on guilt.

    Remember the scripture "God's ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts." Ezekial, I believe. None of us know, no matter how good/evil we are, if God will remember us. We do know that we are all aging, and probably will die someday. With that in mind, don't you think what we do - now - with our lives is the important thing? To love, live, learn, and serve God - now?

    This can be done as Jesus said about the scriptures "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth Jesus Christ." John 17:3.
    God and Jesus, period. If one needs an organization - or does not - everlasting life does not hinge on that, according to the scriptures. Knowledge, love, faith, and works are the necessary things - according to the scriptures. The WTBTS is the organization that told us that we needed to belong to their organization to gain everlasting life.

    Perhaps a good thing for a lot of us is to continue talking with others about what we really think. Read, pray, and do what we feel is right. But all this takes time.

    I know you have a meeting coming up, pressing you for time, but no matter how it goes, you're always welcome here. And only you and God know your heart.

    waiting

    Edited by - waiting on 31 December 2000 12:18:26

  • mommy
    mommy

    Hey just have to say it:
    The Marines are taught~God~Country~Corp
    Growing up my mom use to say to us, when we used to tell her we loved her she would say I love you to, BUT I love Jehovah more! Sad to say she proved after I left the truth by refusing to talk to me for YEARS.And she use to tell us about the day "they" would come to persecute us and would kill us right before her eyes but she wouldnt back down because of her faith in God!
    This is some sick *&^%stuff
    Evidencing the whole org is built on fear and guilt.
    Sorry I don't know why I changed the subject guess i needed to get it out:)
    mommy

  • Seven
    Seven

    Mommy, Just let it all out. That's what a discussion forum is for. Entire volumes can be written about the JW Mom.

    Seven

  • mommy
    mommy

    THANX:)
    No one knows it unless they lived it too, I love being able to express my thoughts and KNOW you KNOW what I went through because to some degree you have been there too.
    mommy

  • thinker
    thinker

    (Thinkers Wife)
    Struggle,
    I am so glad to hear you say that. How commendable.
    Path,
    I know Struggle will do what is right for her, or at least I hope so.
    I just wish she could stop beating herself to death. I do tend to be a little impatient sometimes. I just really want everyone to get the most out of their life. And I feel a particular kinship to everyone hear.
    Mommy,
    I love you, you are such a straight shooter.
    Hugs and more hugs to everyone.
    Thinkers Wife

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