Anyone who wants to know how a REAL debate should be conducted must read Plato's Dialogues. This book consists of the various debates made by Socrates and sets the standard we all need to emulate.
Farkel
DISHONEST debates and discussions are everywhere!
by Terry 24 Replies latest jw friends
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donny
Good post Terry. I admit that I used to be a big fan of some of these one sided talk shows. At the time I did believe some of the things they support, but as time went on and I really thought about the issues, things began to change for me. As you stated, the host has the advantege and would often make an opposing caller look stupid because he is in control of the enviroment, but I noticed that in the real world, these types often lost "real" debates and often walked away after dropping a few names. People are often just waiting to throw one back at you instead of discussing the point you are tyring to make.
Donny
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nancy drew
the prospective of someone born in as opposed to choosing at the age of 36 is very different. I was looking for new and different ideas about the meaning of life and at first it was intriguing never thought of living on earth forever never knew the bible that well so it was exciting at first lots of new people to talk to and I thought it was all about asking questions and searching and I didn't have any problem with being in a unpopular group. however as time went on the spider web of entrapment was weaving around me. one day you realize this was a mistake its ablock of concrete. all I am trying to do now is learn from it and continue my search. the only thing I feel confident about now is intellgent design what that intelligence is doing I'm not sure what it wants I don't know. I am continuing the pursuit of possibilities.
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RR
I'm sorry Terry, did you say somethying?
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TD
Actually, the best discusion are when people "voice" their views and NEITHER party tries to "convert" the other.
That's a good observation. Plenty of things are discussed on the 'net where people may have stong opinions but not conclusive proof. (e.g. Was C.T. Russell a Mason) Without proof, opinions are only that.
--Problem is a clever writer can dress up an erroneous view in a way that is persuasive. If no one points out his false premises and logical fallacies, people are persuaded
When Watchtower writers get on the subject of blood transfusion for example, they commit every logical fallacy in the book. Hasty generalizations, Ad Hoc arguments, Equivocation, False Analogy, The argument from silence and more are regularly repeated on the internet straight from JW literature.
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cyberjesus
I love to disagree... it makes me think. I love to be wrong, it makes me think.
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cry
Yes it's true that often people don't listen and can't wait to jump in. I have had a few discussions with JWs where everything I said was completely ignored and they read from scripture that bore absolutley no relevance to what I was saying. Trouble, is you find yourself doing the same thing - just looking for brownie points. Very unsatisfying. I suppost that people debate at different levels. Some debate very academically over meticulous bible points, some over dates, some history, geography, but some debate using feelings, common sense, justice, fairness and logic - all have their place.
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startingover
TD, your comment about knowing a position you are arguning against so well you could argue for it really hit home with me. Any time I have a discussion with my JW wife, what you say is true, and it ticks her off when I mention that I know what she's going to say. It's just really hard to sit there and listen to a long explanation when I already know that position.
Thanks for the link, going to take a look at it later.
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frankiespeakin
Terry,
Anytime I debate I seldom do it with the idea to get the other debator to really listen, instead I do it for the lurker who has nothing invested in winning or losing.
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cyberjesus
But why do you debate? to learn? to teach? to expose? I think the problem is that while we want to debate to expose our thoughts and test them most of the time people debate to prove their points rather than to find a truth.
Coming to a debate with the idea that we know the reality really blocks our progress even if we win the debate. Coming to the debate with the premise we dont know all the facts but only the ones we know leaves us open to the possibilities of learning other points that might provide more light.
the key to progress is to come to a debate with the mind set of not knowing willing to learn rather than willing to teach.