by leavingwt 36 Replies latest jw friends
Again, spirituality and religion are two different things.
There's nothing wrong with Humanism. It's a fine philosophy.
However, I'm a bit skeptical about any claims by Humanism to have produced the same kind of life-changing experience that true believers in Christ have effected upon discovering the love and forgiveness of Jesus.
Have to disagree, Humanism is a religion or an ideology
Firstly, I said babies are born atheists, not born humanists.
Secondly, here is a more precise definition of humanism for you to correct your misconception:
Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.
I would reccommend the biblical model.
You would, solely due to you the accident of you being born in a Christian country, otherwise you would be recommending the Koranic model, or some other ancient Bronze Age holy book.
Hitchens' challenge remains unanswered - make an ethical or moral statement that an atheist could not equally make.
And he has posed the challenge to better minds than you Perry. Sorry.
However, I'm a bit skeptical about any claims by Humanism to have produced the same kind of life-changing experience that true believers in Christ have effected upon discovering the love and forgiveness of Jesus.
It's a bit illogical to expect humanists to espouse irrational experiences like finding there really is a magick man in the sky - invisible and silent though he is. Humanists are committed to making the most of their life, and that of others, in the here and now. And leaving the world a better place for the generations that follow - for me that seems like harder work and produce more tangible results than simply being 'born again' from original depravity and waiting on being dead so you can get to the sky with Jesus.
<true believers only of course, all those child molesting priests and butchering nuns weren't really true believers - I suppose the entire Catholic hierarchy aren't true believers given the multi-millions of death sentences they deliver by banning condoms>
Oh, I agree with Hitchens Betsy. But after completing most of my Sociology courses for a degree at Texas State University a few years ago where most of my profesors were humanists, I still have to ask the question, "Where's the money"? Of course this is a question that requires a personal answer.
Hers's what I believe is a more accurate description of Secular Humanism:
This is the first tenet in the Humanist Manifesto I from 1933:
FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.
Of course this has been pretty much been proven by scientists to be false. Our best theories support the fact that time, space and matter, all came into existence at the same time.
The introduction to this first tenet above reads:
" ...it is none the less obvious that any religion that can hope to be a synthesizing and dynamic force for today must be shaped for the needs of this age. To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following:"
So, Humanism is a religion as stated in the original manifesto. It should be debated as such.
Humanism, strictly speaking, does not have to be atheistic, Perry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_humanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Judaism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Buddhism
I consider myself a Christian Humanist.
BTS
betsy says:
Humanists are committed to making the most of their life, and that of others, in the here and now. And leaving the world a better place for the generations that follow - for me that seems like harder work and produce more tangible results than simply being 'born again' from original depravity and waiting on being dead so you can get to the sky with Jesus.
Of course it is harder work, ALOT harder work. That's what our experience as JW's should have taught us. Our hard work got us nowhere morally. That's what the facts show in my life. There is nothing wrong with your reasoning above whatsoever. Everything in our life experience would lead to such a conclusion as you've come to above. There's just one problem. It doesn't work.
Furthermore , everything in my body screams DO NOT GIVE UP CONTROL TO GOD. This is based on the fact that seemingly everytime I have given up control over myself to someone, or a religion (like the WT) I ALWAYS ended up on the way short end of the stick.
I can honestly say that the one exception to this experience is when I did this to God, without going through a religion, that things have worked out positively for me beyond my wildest dreams. ( and yes, some of my dreams changed necssarily so....but not many) .
From Wiki:
Christian Humanism is the belief that human freedom and individualism are intrinsic (natural) parts of, or are at least compatible with, Christian doctrine and practice. It is a philosophical union of Christian and humanist principles.
Humanism is a moral philosophy that considers humans to be of primary importance.
But doesn't humanism place man at the center of morality while Christianity places God at the center ?
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
